Life Rolls On podcast

Gordy Broome: 

Even though my whole world was changed, there was still so much more left.

Kate Nipperess:

I can do anything an able body person can do, I'll just do it my way.

Wayne Warren:

It doesn't matter what it is, you will get to where you want to get to and you will be happy again.

Steve Ralph:

Hello and welcome to Life Rolls On, a podcast series where you'll hear stories from people living well after a life altering injury. This podcast is powered by Hireup, a disability support platform connecting people like me with top-notch support workers. I'm your host, Steve Ralph, someone who's been navigating a life-changing disability since my spinal cord injury five years ago. In this, our first episode, I'm going to share a bit about my story and give you a taste of what you can expect from the rest of the series.

So at the time that I suffered a spinal cord injury, I was 25 years old, a few years into a career in marketing and sales. I'd been working at a pharmaceutical company, Bayer, but in the animal health division for a few years. Been working across marketing and brand management and had taken a role in farm animal sales role. So for that, I had to relocate from my home in Sydney and move over to Western Australia for this position, and I was sort of studying part-time, doing a master's degree. So it was a really crazy hectic time just trying to jam everything in and it was kind of just like this fun, exciting time. I had this kind of mental image of where life was going at the time. At the end of 2017 in December, I was back on the east coast on a holiday from work, visiting friends and family for Christmas and the end of year and back for a conference.

And during that period, that break period, I drove up with some friends to Port Macquarie. There was a big bunch of us and we were going to Festival of the Sun up there, which is just a few days camping and sort of music festival that goes on up there each year in December. So we were there for a couple of days and on the second day we were playing a bit of cricket around the campsite and down the caravan park and just mucking around as you do and had a bit of a game. About an hour into this, it's about 30 degrees or something, and I'm just absolutely cooking. And so me and mate decided we'll go for a swim and we sort of had this chat like, oh, we're going to go beach or going to go pool. And I was like, "oh, let's go pool. It'll just a bit closer".

So we walked over to the pool and it was sort of mid to late arvo, walked over to the pool yard and I was sort of turned around taking off my shirt and putting my wallet and phone and stuff in the corner, taking my shoes off and getting ready to jump in. And then I hear my mate dive and splash. So I was like kind of in my head, I just made this note thinking. I remember thinking, "oh yeah, he's just jumped in this end. Cool, I'll just turn around and jump, should be all right". Very, very silly. Obviously didn't think that through entirely and didn't look closely enough because as I turned around I've sort of just assumed, okay, he's jumped off and dived from here. But I think in hindsight what had happened is he'd walked in and then jumped off a big shelf that was in the pool.

So instead of me walking into the shelf and then diving off that as he did, I've dived from the side assuming, okay, yeah, it's super deep, but there was a few meters long step that kind of juts out from the end. So I've actually hit my head on that and the water level was probably knee deep or something. So it's just that whole force of the body just crunched down on the head, and as you can imagine that that impact is just crazy. And yeah, silly mistake, super simple mistake, but one that cost a fair bit in terms of what happened afterwards.

Immediately I couldn't feel or move anything. I was face down in the pool completely conscious. I was barely even dizzy. It was this weird feeling where, even just I don't know, just in normal life or playing sport or something, you'd bump your head, it's hurt worse than what this had because I just remember thinking it was really weird how clear my thoughts were. And I just remember immediately being worried that I'm going to come up and have an egg on my head and people are going to be like, 'oh my god, this guy what a loser. How'd you get that egg on your head?' That was my kind of thought, I'm just going to have cut or a bruise or whatever. But yeah, after thinking about that, that kind of flashed through my head. And then afterwards I just realized, hang on a sec, I can't move. This is bizarre. And then I realized actually I can't even really feel the water around me and then I'm just going, oh dear, this is not good because I'm face down just staring at the bottom of the pool.

I just remember thinking, keep calm and don't panic here. Just don't try and breathe in any water because then you'll be in a whole lot of trouble. So I just remember just trying to stay as calm as possible and just trying not to take a breath in. And at that time when there's a bit of panic setting in, that's pretty difficult to kind of maintain that thought that, okay, it'll be all right, you'll get out of this. You just got to stay calm because there weren't many people around the area. There was a few, and I think most people didn't realize what had happened and thought that I was either just joking around or just floating, just mucking around or whatever. So there wasn't much support in the initial few seconds, I don't know 30 seconds or something. Because my mate was off, he was just swimming a lap or whatever and he was kind of just doing his own thing.

But then it wasn't until somebody I think walked past and noticed that I was not moving and they've jumped over the fence or come in somehow, and they came in and I just remember I was there for what felt like forever. They've turned me around and they just said, "Hey mate, are you all right?" And I just said, "yeah, yeah, I'm okay, but I can't move. I can't stand up". And then he was just freaked. But what a legend, fully saved me there. If there wasn't someone there, could have ended a lot worse.

But anyway, so he was pretty gentle and just was like, 'all right, we've got to get medical assistance', which they then did. And then over the next 20 minutes or something, I was kind of transferred out of the pool and assessed initially very quickly at there and then I was transported to the base hospital in Port Mac. From there they just choppered me to North Shore Hospital in Sydney. And that was pretty speedily done and I was sedated for the flight and then ended up in ICU there. And the next thing I knew, it was a couple of days later, I think, was when I had my next memory of being awake after that whole incident. So that was basically what happened and how it all went down.

So in the days and weeks following that injury, I was kind of in just this big state of shock I think for so long and didn't really kind of process everything properly I don't think until a fair bit later because there's just too much to think about. At first I think it's just so overwhelming and you go from being completely able-bodied healthy to having conversations around you may never breathe independently again let alone walk. Forget about walking, let's work on breathing first, that sort of conversation. And then, yeah, so it's just so all encompassing. I think that it's just too much to process immediately and it's really just crazy overwhelming and stuff. So that was probably the best word I could use to describe is just overwhelmed. Mentally I was just, actually surprisingly other than feeling of overwhelmed, I was kind of all right mentally. I had really good support from my family and close mates and stuff, and this is just bit before COVID thankfully. So hospitals were letting people in and it was fine, and that was really, really awesome to have that support there. So very thankful that I did have those close people around and the staff were amazing and so mentally held up all right actually in those first weeks.

It was just physically that was the challenge obviously, just fighting with your body every day to see what it's going to give you back. And the doctors also don't know in those initial days what the extent of the injury is. It could be spinal shock and then maybe you come out of that, and it kind of all settles down to an extent. But the mechanism of my injury, the way that the bone broke and the impact that it had on the cord and the swelling and the blood loss, so that's where the blood getting into the cord and stuff I think was pretty severe. It was like a C3,4,5 fracture, so a few were impacted. I think C four was probably the worst, so that was where most of the damage was. But even then though, you still don't know for sure how much you'll get back and when it'll come back as well. So this is this massive battle with your body to see how that's going to work.

But as I said, main challenge was getting breathing control back if you could, and that was the big immediate hurdle and the first hurdle that was sort of I guess set to me by one of the doctors was like, 'we're going to try and test your breathing a bit'. I was ventilated for the first I think nine days and through that whole ventilation period, it's just breath going in and out automatically. You are not doing anything, it's kind of a weird feeling though because it doesn't feel like you're not doing it. It feels normal, but it's not you doing it. It's super weird to explain. But they do this thing with spinal cord patient, high level spinal cord patients in the acute stages. If they require ventilation, they'll wean you off it and taper the percentage that the ventilator is doing down periodically to test your lung function and see if your lungs can kick in and to what extent they can do that so they know how are we going to manage the respiratory system moving forward.

And I think the magic number is 10 days. I was told a year later, I came back to the hospital for a checkup and I saw my initial doctor that told me, he said, 'you were about a day away from having a trachie and being on a ventilator. We were going to give you one more day before we decided to do that'. But luckily on that ninth day out of 10 days of trial and kind of tapering the respirator off and back, on day nine I got off it and sort of had an hour, I think, straight of no ventilation assistance, and I got through it. And then I just remember being like, 'okay, I can breathe amazing, tick that off, thank God'. And then yeah, they came and took the ventilator out and I was just like, oh my god. Best feeling ever felt like I was cured because all of a sudden I could talk again. I didn't have this big tube down my throat and I was like, 'thank God, I could actually just tell people I'm feeling okay, it's going to be fine'.

Now that I've got five years-ish of hindsight and perspective to think back on, I think the biggest changes are really loss of hand function and obviously loss of walking as well. They're just the two biggest challenges. They're kind of ongoing, but you definitely find ways to do stuff and I think people surprise themselves if they're in a situation like that. People are pretty adaptive and there's always a way around stuff. I think there's always a way to do something, you just have to do it a bit differently to how you might've thought you would do it or how you traditionally did do it. The biggest lessons I've learned out of having gone through this injury, I think acceptance, but also perseverance at the same time. It's kind of balancing these two concepts that are pretty opposite things to kind of get grasp I guess, you've got to accept where you are at to some extent in order to allow adaptions to your life and allow change to occur around you and to allow yourself to be able to adapt.

You've got to accept things to an extent, but there's a danger in being too complacent in acceptance. And I think, I don't know, there's this real balancing act between those two things. And it's just like this constant battle in your head of trying to get to a place where you strive for more and you strive to persevere with improvements and to achieve things, but you've also got to have some level of acceptance to be able to work on those because if you don't accept what's happened and digest it and move on, then you will never be open, I guess, to embracing how you can adapt and change and it's a barrier to moving forward I reckon. That's how I felt and my kind of biggest lesson I've learned and also above that is patience as well. Just things take forever, you put in so much work physically and mentally and just to get your life back on track where it was at. That I think you just have to learn to be patient and then learn to have fun along the way as well, still enjoy things at the same time.

So it's huge resilience challenge, I think, but it's all possible. That's what I've kind of learned as well. So after hearing me rambling on, I think more than this, the conversations that we can have around disability, around injury and just what it means to kind of have a disability or an injury and live a normal life again. And I want to use the term normal. That's kind of this phrase that people throw around, but it's like a new normal post injury. It looks different, but in reality it's the same but in a kind of altered way. So I'm really excited to share these stories because I think they're stories that are worth telling because there's so much stigma around disability and so much mystery and misconception. I think it's really good for people if they don't have lived experience, to have a sense of that and a bit of perspective to it, and for people with lived experience to maybe possibly get some tips or maybe just enjoy the conversations and connect with people that are in a similar situation. So I think there's something for everyone in this series, and I'm pretty excited to share the stories.

Speaker 1:

There is a time for grieving, and I kind of just didn't focus on grieving until I felt like I was at a good point physically and mentally to go to that space.

Speaker 2:

People that are like you, that have suffered an injury are really important to be around. Don't not associate with anyone else in wheelchairs.

Speaker 6:

No, I can still work and I can still go and I don't know, have all these great relationships and I can still be a part of the community and I can still go out about. There's still so many things that you can do just because you've had an injury. Whereas I think a lot of people just think you just stay at home and watch TV and sit in your room all day. It's like, no-

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 6:

... [inaudible 00:16:51] still, we're out here living and contributing to the community and I don't know, killing it.

Steve Ralph:

It's taken time and a lot of work, but I'm now enjoying all the things I was before my injury. I'm working in my marketing job, I'm driving my car, I'm traveling with my friends, I'm living independently in my own apartment. I can promise you, as will all my guests, that life can be good after a life-changing injury. Life Rolls On is hosted by me, Steve Ralph, and produced by Melanie Dimmer. The podcast is powered by HireUp, a disability support platform connecting people like me with topnotch support workers. Thanks for listening, and catch you soon for the next episode of Life Rolls On.

Gordy Broome: 

Even though my whole world was changed, there was still so much more left.

Kate Nipperess:

I can do anything an able-bodied person can do. I'll just do it my way.

Wayne Warren:

It doesn't matter what it is. You will get to where you want to get to and you will be happy again.

Steve Ralph:

Hello, and welcome to Life Rolls On, a podcast series where you'll hear stories from people living well after a life-altering injury. This podcast is powered by Hireup, disability support platform connecting people like me with top-notch support workers. I'm your host, Steve Ralph, someone who's been navigating a life-changing disability since my spinal cord injury five years ago.

In this episode, I'm chatting with Kate Nipperess. Kate was a professional, race-winning jockey when in 2016, a track accident resulted in a spinal cord injury. After a lot of work, incredibly, Kate's now back riding horses with her eyes on competing at the 2024 Paralympics in Paris.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, so I'm riding three days a week, looking for a horse to buy. It's harder when you're in a wheelchair, obviously, because you need a horse that's pretty much 100% safe and they're hard to find because they're horses.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Kate Nipperess:

[inaudible 00:01:08].

Steve Ralph:

It's not like test-driving a car. They got a bit of personality to them.

I first met Kate in hospital while both of us were recovering from spinal cord injuries.

We both have the same injury, but it's super different in a lot of ways. I'm super high up at my neck, like C4, 5, whereas what you're T-something, is it?

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, I'm T10, which is around belly button level, and I have what's called an incomplete injury, so I still have almost full feeling below my injury and a little bit of movement. Not enough to be that useful, but a little bit of movement still.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, so I guess that's how we got to know each other and also knew each other with a bit of wheelchair rugby stuff.

Kate Nipperess:

We did.

Steve Ralph:

We kind of played, did a bit of training together with that, which was fun.

Kate Nipperess:

Wheelchair rugby was really the turning point for me after I got injured when I first started.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, cool.

Kate Nipperess:

So I always try to encourage other people to go there. Even if you're not going to be a really serious player, it's just meeting other people that have gone through what you've gone through and some of them are maybe 10 years down the track. So they can really give you a lot of insight into how they've managed to just get on with their lives and not even worry about the injury anymore.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly. Yeah. It definitely puts you in a new mindset, I reckon. I felt the same thing. Can you go there?

Kate Nipperess:

Absolutely.

Steve Ralph:

And anybody else who has ever seen me try to do this would also say, "Absolutely useless" and just absolutely best placed on the bench for any game. But it was just fun to get around everybody and just being a team competitive thing and to push yourself physically in an environment where it's everybody just kind of gets up. Like you said, everyone's just getting on with things and it's not like-

Kate Nipperess:

And you get treated normally. What I liked about it was being in horse racing, most of my adult life, you get treated pretty harshly. They have high expectations of you and you have trainers yelling at you all the time. And then after I got injured, I felt as though everyone was wrapping me up in cotton wool and I didn't like that. And then I got to rugby and they don't care that you're in a wheelchair because everyone's in one. They still yell at you. They still expect a lot of you and I like that. I think a lot of people do like that young people. Especially blokes, they like being treated like a young guy again.

Steve Ralph:

Definitely.

Kate Nipperess:

And having people expect a certain standard of them. It's really good for you.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely good for the mentality.

Kate Nipperess:

It is.

Steve Ralph:

Because I remember, yeah, I think it was the first day I was there. Someone came and just put a giant hit on me and knocked me on my back and just smashed me into the ground. And I was just like, "All right. Yep. Righto. Welcome to the team here. We're on." But it was like you said, it's just like it's fun. It's like that's no different to anybody else played a bit of sport. That kind of just happens.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, exactly.

Steve Ralph:

It's just part of the game so, yeah.

Unlike me, Kate is actually a professional athlete. Prior to her injury, she was working at a racetrack in Sydney and competing as a jockey.

Kate Nipperess:

So I grew up riding horses. I can't remember before I rode horses. I was so young. I was just turned four when I started riding.

Steve Ralph:

Cool.

Kate Nipperess:

My family aren't into horses, but I just loved them. From the moment I could talk, it's all I could do was talk about horses and wanting to ride. So I was lucky that my parents supported that and took me to have riding lessons. And then when I was old enough, I got a pony because we lived on acreage, which was great.

Steve Ralph:

Nice.

Kate Nipperess:

And I competed in a lot of different equestrian events. I'd mainly did dressage and show jumping. And then, when I became, I don't know, moving out of home age 18, 19, I realized that it was actually quite an expensive sport when I was looking at having to fund it all myself. And I had some friends that were in horse racing and I realized I could get paid to ride horses rather than paying out all of my wages to own them.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, cool.

Kate Nipperess:

So I went to the racetrack and learned how to ride them, which was a lot different to the riding I'd been doing. Those horses are a whole different ballgame. But eventually, I stuck with it. I got bolted on and thrown off a lot, but I stuck with it and I just loved it. I loved it more than any other riding I'd done and...

Steve Ralph:

Amazing.

Kate Nipperess:

I spent some time in Scone when I was a jockey. I was an apprentice for a few years, went down to Tasmania for a while, but I was mainly based at Warwick Farm. Rode a lot of track work there. Worked at a big breaking in property where I was foreman for a year or so, which was really good to learn that side of it.

Steve Ralph:

That's cool.

Kate Nipperess:

And then in 2016, I was galloping a horse at track work and somebody else had fallen off their horse on the track and it was galloping the wrong way around the track. And there's an alarm that goes off when there's a loose horse. So I heard that and looked around for the horse and I couldn't see it. You're going that quickly. You're going over 60 k's an hour when you're galloping.

Steve Ralph:

Wow, yeah.

Kate Nipperess:

And then suddenly, I woke up on the ground and we'd apparently had a head-on collision around the bend of the track.

Steve Ralph:

Geez. [inaudible 00:06:13].

Kate Nipperess:

And yeah, I broke, yeah, T10 where I have the spinal cord injury, but I also broke C7 in my neck. I broke most of my ribs, my shoulder, both of my lungs collapsed, and I was knocked out and concussed.

Steve Ralph:

Geez. Holy moly.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, so I was lucky. I could have been really hurt.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Yeah, exactly. Oh my God. So you were fully knocked out and then woke up on the track or woke up later?

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah. No, I woke up on the track and was really confused and angry because people were holding me down. And when it's just ingrained in you as a horse rider, when you fall off, you jump straight up and get back on.

Steve Ralph:

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kate Nipperess:

And you want to do that and you want to jump up to prove to yourself that you're okay. And there were these big trainers on you, holding me down. I was getting so angry at them.

Steve Ralph:

Geez.

Kate Nipperess:

And then, I don't know how long it was, a couple of minutes or so, and then the pain kicked in because adrenaline's the best painkiller there is. But once that wore off a bit, the pain was the most excruciating I'd ever felt.

Steve Ralph:

Oh gosh.

Kate Nipperess:

Was just out of this world. And then the ambos gave me something after a few minutes and I don't remember the next eight hours. And they took me to the local hospital to make sure that I was stable and then took me to North Shore and operated on me and I didn't go back home for another nine months.

Steve Ralph:

Geez. Yeah, okay. And so did you realize the impact of that injury straight away when you woke up that first time?

Kate Nipperess:

No.

Steve Ralph:

Or you were just like, "What's going on? Get off me. Let me get back up."

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, it didn't occur to me. A lot of friends that are in wheelchairs have said to me, "I knew straight away." And yet, I feel really ignorant now, but I didn't really know about spinal cord injuries. I didn't really think about how they happened despite being in one of the most dangerous jobs in the country where a lot of people have had spinal cord injuries. But no one I knew personally had one.

And I didn't really know that that could happen. I was waiting to meet the doctor that was going to fix me. I was like, "I can't move my legs. What are you going to do to fix me?" And over time, I realized that no one was really saying anything. But then after the surgery, the surgeon told my family that I had a 50-50 chance of walking again because my injury's incomplete and the nature of its incompleteness was giving me some chance to walk again. And I thought that I had to walk again to ride again and that was my main priority. So I just became obsessed with walking again. And over time, I did walk again, but not well enough to ride racehorses. It was pretty sketchy walking. It's quite dangerous. I need a walking frame to make sure I don't fall over. But yeah, that's what I just threw myself into, just the rehab and trying to walk again for a few years.

Steve Ralph:

And I reckon it's just grappling, hey, with just how much do you strive for physical recovery and when do you transition that from, "Okay, how do I shift to... okay, this has happened and let's just do something with what we've got kind of and just move forward as well again?"

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah. You think that you need to walk to be happy. And now that I have a job where I help people that have just been injured because I struggled a lot the first few years. I was extremely depressed and I didn't want anyone else to feel as bad as I did for as long as I did. So I work in peer support now for [inaudible 00:09:51] helping people. And I say to them, "Before you got injured, when you woke up in the morning, was the reason that you got out of bed and the reason you had fulfillment and happiness in your life because you could move your legs to get from A to B? That's not what made you happy. It's just when you lose it, it's such a shock and you think you need that to be happy again. But that wasn't what made you happy." It was whatever it is for each individual person, their kids or their passion and their job and what they love doing and their friends or what they like, where they like to go on the weekends or a sport that they've thrown themselves into. They're the things that bring you happiness and fulfillment. It's not whether you walk to get there and do those things or not. But it takes a while to get your head around that.

Steve Ralph:

For sure. For sure. Exactly. It's like it's just finding a way to adapt to do the same things that you loved to do before, but being able to do it in a slightly different way or it might look a different way, but you're still going to be able to do the same things you were doing that make you happy.

Kate Nipperess:

One of the guys at wheelchair rugby said to me, "I can do anything that an able-bodied person can do, but I just do it in a different way and it might take me a bit longer."

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. Great way to put it.

Kate Nipperess:

He said I can do anything. Yeah, it is a great way to put it because now I think that I can do anything an able-bodied person can do. I'll just do it my way. Recently, I was looking at an apartment that's on the sixth floor at an open home and while we were all in there viewing it, the lift broke and the other people went to go and they came back and said, "The lift is broken. Well, we'll just go down the fire stairs." And I thought, "Well, I can't go down the fire stairs" and the real estate agent really wasn't that concerned for me. And it was a Saturday, so I thought, "Our chances of someone coming out to fix it are pretty slim." And the agent left and said, "I've made a phone call to building management. Someone will come and fix it." And I thought, "That's pretty unlikely." So I waited for about half an hour and I heard nothing.

Steve Ralph:

Oh my God.

Kate Nipperess:

And then, I opened the door to the fire stairs and I thought, "I can get down here." And I got out of my wheelchair onto the floor and I transferred down six flights of fire stairs.

Steve Ralph:

Whoa. Oh my God.

Kate Nipperess:

I was pretty puffed out afterwards, but because I've managed to keep fit...

Steve Ralph:

Amazing, yeah.

Kate Nipperess:

I could still do that. I just did it in a different way. If you really want to do things...

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, you could still-

Kate Nipperess:

Not everybody can necessarily do that based on their injury, but within everyone's capabilities, there are ways that you can do things.

Steve Ralph:

... yeah, there's still ways.

Kate Nipperess:

You could have got someone to piggyback you down there or you just got to think outside the square.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. Get creative. Yeah.

Kate Nipperess:

It was empowering after I'd done it because I thought, "If I'm ever in a situation where there's a fire or something, at least I know that I can do that if I really have to." I wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, not the go-to way to get out, but it can be done.

Kate Nipperess:

No.

Steve Ralph:

In a crunch time, it's all good.

Kate Nipperess:

Yes.

Steve Ralph:

To your point of everybody might treat you differently or thinks that you can't do things, is that something that you wish people knew about life after a spinal injury? Are there other things that come to mind that you wish people knew?

Kate Nipperess:

I think the best way to try and bring change for that is just by educating the general public because some of them are people who will have spinal cord injuries in the future. And we just need to normalize it a bit by having people that are in wheelchairs in daily life like a news reader or a character in a show. Just have people that are in a wheelchair when it's not about them being in the wheelchair. They're just another person on the show or another person that works for that television station.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly.

Kate Nipperess:

There isn't much of that, which when it happens to someone, it makes them scared because they've never seen anybody living a normal life and doing normal things who was in a wheelchair.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly. Yeah.

Kate Nipperess:

What bothered me the most was people. I was worried about people pitying me and feeling sorry for me. And then one of the other guys at rugby said, "Do you feel sorry for me?" And I sort of laughed at him because I was like, "As if I feel sorry for you. You're a beast." And he said, "Well, why don't you feel sorry for me? I'm a quadriplegic. I have a worse injury than you. Why don't you pity me?" And I said, "I don't really know." He said, "It's because I can do anything. I put most able-bodied people to shame with what I can do." He said, "I'm a weapon. You can be a weapon." He said, "You're only a para. You can do anything. Be a weapon. Have people look at you and be amazed rather than feel sorry for you."

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, that's awesome.

Kate Nipperess:

And that's what I've aimed to do now. No one would pity me because I do stuff like transfer down six flights of fire stairs.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly. Exactly. That's so sick. And so you're thinking of Paralympics, right? You've got the vision to get to that next goal?

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm back riding horses. I'm doing dressage again, which I did before I started being a jockey. And I'm training with the Australian Paralympic coach.

Steve Ralph:

Cool.

Kate Nipperess:

I'm training three days a week up here in Sydney as well. And we're on the hunt for the right horse, so I'm just using a borrowed horse at the moment.

Steve Ralph:

Cool.

Kate Nipperess:

But the aim is Paris 2024, which is in August next year. So it's not that long, but I'm pretty determined and dedicated to trying to qualify. I mean, it's not easy. There are a lot of very accomplished riders trying to do the same thing. [inaudible 00:15:40].

Steve Ralph:

All from Australia, like other Aussie riders.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, yeah.

Steve Ralph:

Cool.

Kate Nipperess:

So they're only limited people that are selected.

Steve Ralph:

Spots.

Kate Nipperess:

But I'm going to do everything I can to try and be one of them. Racing New South Wales have been really supportive of me and sponsored me...

Steve Ralph:

Oh, wow. Awesome.

Kate Nipperess:

... which is helping significantly because it's not a cheap sport and it's not a cheap campaign for a games.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Kate Nipperess:

So they're amazing.

Steve Ralph:

That's so good.

Kate Nipperess:

The racing industry really look after their own. They're great.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. That's really cool. Just want to do a quick shout out. You're the biggest legend ever because when I was freshly injured, you did this massive fundraiser for me.

Kate Nipperess:

Oh, that's right.

Steve Ralph:

And because the NDIS knocked back-

Kate Nipperess:

Knocked back.

Steve Ralph:

... yeah, knocked back all my applications to get, which was a bit of a... sorry to poo poo the NDIS here, but that was pretty rough.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, it's unfair. [inaudible 00:16:31].

Steve Ralph:

I got knocked back for a standing frame and I was like, "This is crazy. It's so many benefits to your health to stand for anybody." But yeah, after injuries, so important.

Kate Nipperess:

Because I remember you telling me that in the gym at Mount Wilga? And then after you went, you left, I was thinking because I was injured at work, so I'm insured by Racing New South Wales who were really, really good. And after you left, I thought if I needed that, they would just get it for me. How unfair is it that just because of where we got injured, we have access to such different things? You know what I mean? Just because you weren't injured at work, why does that mean that you don't deserve to just get what you need straight away like I did. So I just thought I wanted to do something to help you. I mean, I couldn't change the rules that NDIS had, but I could still try and help you get it. And we raised the money, didn't we, and we got it. [inaudible 00:17:25].

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly. And I still use that. I used it yesterday [inaudible 00:17:28].

Kate Nipperess:

So you're cool.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, there you go. Three days a week.

Kate Nipperess:

That's so good.

Steve Ralph:

That thing gets a bit of a workout.

Kate Nipperess:

Awesome.

Steve Ralph:

So that was just, yeah, the nicest thing ever and so I [inaudible 00:17:35].

Kate Nipperess:

I forgot about it.

Steve Ralph:

Oh, I think about it. Every time I use it, I'm like, "Oh, that was nice." I always kind of think about it, so yeah, it was so sick.

Kate Nipperess:

That's right. That's right. Very good.

Steve Ralph:

So just wanted to shout out how that was how we got to know each other as well. We spoke about rugby foot was kind of one of the turning points. It sort of was like, "Oh yeah, I can get back out and do things again" and that kind of helped us both to think a bit differently about stuff. Was there anything else that you would recommend for people, if maybe you've just had an injury or they're listening to this and thinking they're in that state beforehand. Is there anything like that or anything else that you'd suggest for them to kind of [inaudible 00:18:12]?

Kate Nipperess:

Well, with rugby, I mean, sport isn't necessarily everybody's cup of tea, but the main thing, as we said, that helped me with rugby was being around people who had been through what I'd gone through, but years before me. So people that have found a way forward and people that are like you, that have suffered an injury are really important to be around. Don't not associate with anyone else in wheelchairs. Some people do that at first because it kind of makes it real.

Steve Ralph:

True.

Kate Nipperess:

And they just want to isolate themselves and not really... well, I was one of them. Not really face it. If you're seeing other people in wheelchairs, it makes it real. But just try. I mean, it's a monumental thing to happen to you and it takes time to adjust to it, but you just have to try to not think of it as such a big deal. It's just the way that you get around.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly.

Kate Nipperess:

And you can accomplish anything if you really want to do it. Like that guy said to me, you might have to do it in a different way. It might take longer, but just because things might be harder, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't still try and do them.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly.

Kate Nipperess:

But everything is harder for us. Daily life, basic tasks take longer and they're harder and it's a bit more tiring. But it doesn't mean that you shouldn't try and accomplish something great. You can still accomplish so many incredible things and you should. Don't let it stop you from living a fantastic life. I have a fantastic life now. Even if it's just little things. If you want to go down to the park with your kids and you're upset because you can't run around and play with your kids, you can still play with them. You can still go down there and be with them. Just find a way to do the things that make you happy. They don't have to be massive things like going to the Paralympics, but the things that give you purpose and give you a reason to get up in the morning. Find a way to still do them. Ask people to help you. If you need someone to come with you, people want to help you. Don't be afraid to ask for help. And over time, you may not need help to do those things.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly. [inaudible 00:20:17].

Kate Nipperess:

But just get out of the house and gradually ease yourself back into doing the things that make you happy. And the more you're doing things that make you happy, the less you'll think about the wheelchair.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, totally. Yeah. It becomes just a way that you're doing it. It's nothing. It's not part of what you're doing.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah. It's insignificant.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, it's just how you do it. Yeah, totally.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, absolutely.

Steve Ralph:

And yeah, like you said, I think all that stuff, such a slow burn. You've got to give yourself time to be okay with doing all that stuff as well. It's not going to happen overnight, at least it didn't for me as well.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, it didn't for me.

Steve Ralph:

It took it a long time to be like, "Okay," to kind of be like, "All right, I'm going to try doing this in a different way" or even going back and driving.

Kate Nipperess:

I was terrified.

Steve Ralph:

Took me ages. I was like, "How am I going to get out and do this again?" But you eventually just kind of get out and do it and find a way. So, yeah.

Kate Nipperess:

I was terrified to do anything. Like you, I took a long time to drive, a long time to leave the house for any reason other than physio or a medical appointment. But I wish I hadn't taken that long because every day is a gift, so try not to waste too long being scared. The world's still out there for you to enjoy and people want to see you go and see your friends. Just keep doing the things you did before.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. And just talking about physio and stuff, I was going to ask, did you have a point where you were like, "All right, I need to stop rehabbing just for the sake of rehab and train for something." Was there a point where you were like, "Okay, enough of this," just repetition of the same thing and apply that to something else because I kind of was struggling with that at first.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, I did. For me, it was when I started training three or four days a week in rugby. I realized I didn't need to be doing rehab sort of physio anymore. And then once I stopped doing it, I realized it was actually good for me mentally to stop. You need to get to a point where you stop and just exercise in a recreational way. Do something fun for your exercise or just do a workout routine at home or at the gym because you're sort of stopping yourself from moving forward. If you just keep going to rehab for years and years and years, you are in that same headspace as you were when you left hospital. And you don't need to keep doing that. Get on with life and find other ways to keep fit and like I said, maybe do your exercises at home, get a physio to come at home. And you don't need to go in as an outpatient from a spinal cord injury because you've passed that now. You haven't just acquired a spinal cord injury, so you don't need to keep focusing on that.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly. And yeah, just to keep things fresh as well and just to change, change it up and keep progressing forward and thinking a bit differently about how can I get back to life again as opposed to in hospital mode and just that because there's a place obviously for that where you learn a lot of the skills and techniques to do things, I guess. And there's a lot of things I still wish that I will be able to do one day or I kind of still work towards. So as long as, I guess, you've got goals and you're kind of mindful about why you're doing things, that's probably an important thing is what are you working towards? What's the point of this exercise or this thing? Because that's where it will keep you coming back and keep you with a healthy relationship with exercise and stuff. I guess it's just finding a why for the exercise, not just mindlessly doing it because that's what I did in hospital kind of thing and it was just I guess snapping out of that mentality of that.

Kate Nipperess:

Something I do every day, I mean, a lot of people go for a walk every day just outside because it's good for you, get out in the sun. I have two little dogs who are just my whole world and one of my goals was to be able to walk them again by myself, which eventually, I've been able to do. So every day, I take them out and it's good having something like that where you have to go out each day because some days, I just don't feel like going out. Just an able-bodied person and you think, "Oh, had a bit of a rough day. I can't really be bothered. Work was hard." You get home and then the dogs look at me and I think, "I've got to take them out." And once I've been outside in sunshine and it's exercise. It's just going for a push instead of going for a walk or a jog.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Kate Nipperess:

So I do that every day and I find that's just incidental exercise.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly.

Kate Nipperess:

So stuff like that's good. If you think I used to enjoy walking along the water, well, go in your wheelchair along the water.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Kate Nipperess:

You can still do it.

Steve Ralph:

So true. So true. And yeah, I think dogs are like, because I was... just a bit of a side thing, but us dog-sitting for a mate last year for about six weeks and it was just like the best thing ever. It was so good because I was just like, "Oh man." It does give you that extra motivation to get out and do something. Like you just got to, like you said, [inaudible 00:25:17] yourself and go and do it.

Kate Nipperess:

Because something's relying on you.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, they rely on you. You have to do it. You have to get up in the morning and look after them.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly.

Kate Nipperess:

And take them outside and yeah, they're very therapeutic dogs.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, they are. They are, for sure.

Kate Nipperess:

Very [inaudible 00:25:31]. And their company that doesn't demand any questions, any answers to questions or anything. They're just there. They're great. They were great when I first got out hospital, just having the company of my dogs on the bad days when you don't want to talk to anybody.

Steve Ralph:

That's awesome. Did you already have your dogs before your injury or was it like did you get them after?

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, I did. And they used to come into the hospital and visit me.

Steve Ralph:

Oh, that's awesome. So good.

Kate Nipperess:

Yeah, they were very, very important in my recovery. And it was a motivation too for me. I guess people that have kids, that's their motivation to get home. And mine was I wanted to get home to my dogs. When I'd go home visits on the weekend and see them and then have to leave again, I made me work hard to get home to be with them again because they didn't understand why I wasn't there. So yeah, it was a good motivation to get home.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. Good push to be like, "All right, get me out of here. Get me back home." It's awesome.

Kate Nipperess:

Wow, what a legend. Since our chat, Kate has bought her own race horse in Melbourne where she's now moved to continue her training with a Paralympics coach. Kate mentioned that she's working in a peer support role with SCIA, which is an organization called Spinal Cord Injuries Australia. She highly recommends their online resource hub, which you can find linked in the show notes.

If you're at home now with a spinal cord injury, you don't have the benefit of asking your physio, your OT questions, in our resource hub, we've got information on all sorts of things like traveling, if you're wondering about how you could go on a holiday, driving techniques of getting in and out of your car, different transfers.

Steve Ralph:

Awesome.

Kate Nipperess:

There are so many things on there that you can just look up.

Steve Ralph:

Thank you to Kate for this really insightful chat. And here's hoping we can see you competing at the Games in Paris next year. Life Rolls On as hosted by me, Steve Ralph, and produced by Melanie Dimon. The podcast is powered by Hireup, a disability support platform connecting people like me with top-notch support workers. Thanks for listening, and catch you soon for the next episode of Life Rolls On.

Gordy Broome:

Even though my whole world was changed, there was still so much more left.

Kate Nipperess:

I can do anything an able-bodied person can do, I'll just do it my way.

Wayne Warren:

Doesn't matter what it is. You will get to where you want to get to and you will be happy again.

Steve Ralph:

Hello, and welcome to Life Rolls On, a podcast series where you'll hear stories from people living well after a life-altering injury. This podcast is powered by Hireup, a disability support platform, connecting people like me with top-notch support workers.

I'm your host, Steve Ralph, someone who's been navigating a life-changing disability since my spinal cord injury five years ago. In this episode, I'm chatting with an old mate of mine, Gordy Broome, who I met when we played under-twelves cricket together.

A bit of a right arm rather wicked action. I think I scored a grand total of one run that whole season.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah, I think every ball, I'd try to hit a six, otherwise I'd get out for a duck.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Gordy Broome:

Just six or nothing. But then in the field I was great. Learned how to handstand. I was really good at handstands.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah. A bit of finally handstands.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah, really where I shined on the cricket field.

Steve Ralph:

Gordy and I grew up in the same area, and while we went to different schools, we ended up in the same friendship circles, going to the same parties. Amazingly, years later, in our twenties, we reconnected through acquiring a very similar injury.

Gordy Broome:

My partner and I, Chloe, actually live in Tasmania, and we have a property down there, and when we bought it, there was a mountain bike trail going through the property that hadn't been ridden in a few years. So, I had some mates come over and it was the first day and we're digging it back in. We spent a few hours on it in the top part of the trail, and there was a few doubles in it to start off, and then did a few practice runs. Nailed it. Then just tried to go a bit bigger on the last one and pulled a bit too hard and came over the front of the handlebars and then front forks compressed, and then that threw me even harder into the ground and just landed, yeah, completely on my neck. Didn't injure anything. The neck took the full brunt of the force, so nothing. Missed my head, missed every other part of my body.

Steve Ralph:

Shit.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah. So it was just direct neck hit back like the C4, 5, 6 level, really.

Steve Ralph:

Geez. I didn't know that. I thought you must have hit your head.

Gordy Broome:

No, I was curled over the front, so like a ball.

Steve Ralph:

Oh, right.

Gordy Broome:

I used to be nicknamed the cat because I would just roll out of crashes.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, okay.

Gordy Broome:

But that one, couldn't roll out of it.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Gordy Broome:

But it was definitely in the moment was, "Yeah, something's not good." Then my mate called out, he's like, "You all right? And it was like, "No." Then the loss of sensation creeps up from your toes all the way up and then-

Steve Ralph:

Oh, right.

Gordy Broome:

I was kind of on my side, and then I thought I had broken... Because then my hands went numb, and I just had thought, because I couldn't move it or feel it, I thought I'd snapped my wrist and I kept asking, "Is my wrist in a funny direction? What's going on down there?" "No, no, no, you're good." Then, as it creeps up, and then as your abdomen and your intercostals and breathing starts to kind of shut down, I guess it got a little bit scary. I was like, "Uh oh."

Steve Ralph:

Wow.

Gordy Broome:

I had my mate move my arm, my shoulder a bit to open my chest so I could breathe a bit better. Then it was All right. Then was the ambulance. The ambos came and there was a big team. There were two ambulances, two fire trucks, two teams of SES police cars.

Steve Ralph:

Wow.

Gordy Broome:

The whole shebang came [inaudible 00:03:56].

Steve Ralph:

The whole crew.

Gordy Broome:

There's a dirt road above where we were riding, 20 meters up, but it was a really steep slope. So then they had to rig up all these rope systems and get me out of there, which was a success. Then half an hour ride to the Royal Hobart, where I had all the scans and everything done there. Then at that point, I couldn't move anything. I think I could maybe shrug my shoulders, but that was it. Then they did the surgery straight away. Then woke up in the ICU, and then at that point, I had wrist extensors and biceps. So that was a really good sign that it was like C4-level, just shoulders initially. Then after the surgery, I had those C6 muscles with my wrist firing, which was a good sign.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, awesome.

Gordy Broome:

Then it was three days there, then the Royal Flying Doctor Service flew me to Melbourne, to the Austin, because there's no spinal unit or anything in Tassie. Then was there, finished my ICU, fun times, and then got into the ward. Then, about two or three weeks later from there was flown up to Royal North Shore. Yeah, grew up here in Sydney. Family and friends and everything are here. Did my stint there and then to Royal Rehab.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, that's crazy about the loss of sensation creeping up. I didn't realize it was like that. I think because I was in the water, I probably didn't experience, I didn't probably feel it like that. It would've just been floating. I don't know, you probably wouldn't have noticed it as much, but yeah, that's a creepy feeling to have it. Feeling like, "It's going, it's going, it's going."

Gordy Broome:

Yeah. It just felt it come, coming from the toes up. That was instant, just acceptance that something was bad, "Yeah, I don't know if I'll come back from this one."

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. Geez. That's-

Gordy Broome:

In terms of normal body, full recovery.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly.

Gordy Broome:

Then first thought was went straight to Chloe, "Oh no. What have I done? Poor Chloe." Yeah, it was just that. I think I was lying there, and I definitely had a moment of acceptance of something wasn't right. But then, moving through the weeks and months post the injury date and learning your new body and things, it was just very much, well, for me, it was just focusing on the things you could do or the things that were within a good... Like setting goals that were within reach instead of focusing on everything you can't do anymore. It was just like, "All right, what can I do now? The goals, but right now, what can I do? What can I move?" Being grateful for those, and then really working hard to be able to be a bit better in movements and trying to get yourself care down.

Then, of a longer term was hearing about and seeing what other people with a similar level of injury are capable of, and knowing that, "Well, if they can do it, then I can strive to get to that goal as well of what they can do." But I was lucky, I think, when I was in Melbourne and I had the tube taken out of my throat and I was coherent then, and not as many drugs, and one of the doctors came down. I never asked the walking question. I just never went there. So I just knew something's wrong. So, it was no point in being like, "Is this permanent, will I walk again?" Then the doctor came down once, he's like, "Look, you've obviously had a very serious injury, but you'll still live a fulfilling life. There's still so much left in the world for you and for you to do. If you have the right mindset and attitude, then there's so much left in the world for you." Initially, early on, that really helped me accept that even though my whole world was changed, that there was still so much more left.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, that's really good advice. Awesome to hear that so early as well.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah.

Steve Ralph:

I now definitely respect that attitude, because I think when I first got hurt, it took me while to get my head around things and adjust to it a bit. So, in that respect, to get in that head space so early, it's so unreal.

Gordy Broome:

Because I feel like early on it was just, I had Chloe showing social media. Social media is amazing. So I had Chloe showing me all these C5, 6 quads doing all these amazing things. So there was never a, I-can't-do attitude. It was always like, "One day I will be able to."

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. Yeah.

Gordy Broome:

That's, see all these other people that can do all these things, and you're like, "Well, all right." Well, obviously everyone's different. Everyone has different, with a spinal cord injury, it's just totally different, but you can kind of get a decent gauge on what you might be able to do eventually. But I guess the thing we're really excited for, is we have a van, long-wheel based crafter that we're going to fit out, so I can drive it and also live in the back of it. So we'll have a bedroom, a bathroom, and a kitchen in it, which will be-

Steve Ralph:

Sweet, yeah [inaudible 00:10:03].

Gordy Broome:

... pretty amazing to get back to the van life kind of lifestyle that we loved. Because early on it was a bit of like a, "Oh, no, how do we get back to the bush? How do we get to these wild places?" So, I guess just trying to brainstorm and figure all that out. Even just when we tried to go kayaking, it was like, "Yeah, we've got this harness. It should work."

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Gordy Broome:

[inaudible 00:10:32] "Oh, okay. Maybe it didn't work very well."

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah.

Gordy Broome:

[inaudible 00:10:35] five meters out from the boat rear. I guess it's more of that, nothing comes easy with setup up with a quad. I can't speak for para, but for quads, it's nothing comes, and you got to just keep working at a system that works.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. Everything's super-customized to each person, right?

Gordy Broome:

Yeah.

Steve Ralph:

Got to be right for them.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah. So, getting back out into nature, into the water, into the bush, into whatever you're doing, is just figure out the system that works. Spend time and patience to figure out that system. Then, once you have it, you have it, then you can access these places and things. That's ongoing for myself and Chloe, is just places where I can't access, is, "How can we access those places?"

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly.

Gordy Broome:

And those things that we thought, well, that we wouldn't do again or I wouldn't do again. It's like, "Well, no, you kind of can, you've just got to figure out how."

Steve Ralph:

Gordy, as you can hear, has a very accepting, can-do attitude when it comes to life after injury. But adjusting to a new way of being in the world is not easy. There's a lot to get your head around and a lot of feelings to process, ones that, as Gordy says, can't be pushed away with positivity.

Gordy Broome:

People can just constantly tell you to be positive. It's quite, kind of gets annoying, but it is-

Steve Ralph:

Yeah.

Gordy Broome:

... I think it's really important. And there is a time for grieving, and I just didn't focus on grieving until I was, I felt like I was at a good point, physically and mentally, to go to that space and not be sucked into a hole, I guess. So, I just kept pushing it away and pushing away and focusing on what I could do and being positive. Then I got to a point where I was at rehab, and then I allowed those feelings and those thoughts and that grieving process to start then, to grieve for what I'd lost and that I won't be living and continuing. Because it's really important also to not just block it out and be Mr. Positive. Those feelings are there and they're real, and they'll catch up with you, so you need to-

Steve Ralph:

Exactly.

Gordy Broome:

... pay some time to go there.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly, yeah. You've got to process it. Can't turn away from it. Yeah.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah. But I just pushed it away and away until I knew I was in a good place to then venture into that mind space.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, totally. Because I think in the early days, it's really, there's just so much going on that you don't even have the space or the time to even process it or think about it like that. It's like there's too much, it's too hectic. Even if you wanted to, it's like you can't.

Gordy Broome:

There's people, noises, yeah, everything's going on. There's not much alone time.

Steve Ralph:

Totally. Yeah. You don't get that opportunity until probably later on where you can reflect on it and move on, in a good way.

Gordy Broome:

Having that peer support around also is great.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah.

Gordy Broome:

Like you've been awesome just to reconnect with and just feed off each other. I think it's really good.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. And likewise, man. I think the danger, and I think about this sometimes with this injury, is if you get... It's such a balancing act, because you have all these really big gains at the start, and there's massive changes in like, "Okay, I can do this now, I can do that now, I'm getting to this." Then all of a sudden that plateaus off a little bit. Then I think there's this danger in being too accepting or complacent with what you've got to, and I think when we've started doing our training sessions together and stuff like that, it's kind of made me go, "Man, I could probably... Maybe I can slide transfer," or things like that where I tried a couple of years ago, but then when Covid happened and then I got all these new habits. I just didn't try those things again. So, like you said, challenging each other and getting some more motivation, I think, and re-attempting those milestones that maybe they are possible now with a bit of extra strength that's come back, or those incremental gains that have happened. So, equally, it's been really good in the sense of kept motivation up in the longer term too.

While chatting with Gordy, someone who is so keen to be out in the world, exploring and adventuring, I ask him to share what he finds hardest about life in a different body.

Gordy Broome:

The world isn't accessible, the world wasn't made for a wheelchair, I guess. So, that can slow you down a little bit. I don't know, now I'm just, life is a skate park and I'm on a skateboard now. So it can be fun, it can be scary. Yeah, obviously the biggest inhibitors is that, just loss of independence, whether that's within your self-care and morning routines and things like that. Then all the way to independence in just being able to go out and know you're not going to be inhibited by a set of stairs or access to somewhere, or whatever it is. At the moment, I'm not driving, so I [inaudible 00:16:14] get too far.

Yeah, I think that loss of independence is the biggest thing to overcome, and that gets better with time regarding your self-care and things like that. But I don't know, I haven't been in a chair for too long, but it seems like it's really moving forward in terms of community access and awareness of that universal design, where now they're just designing things that it's not for people with disability or anything, it's just a design that works for everyone.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, totally. Like you said as well, it's the environment that's disabling. If you can find ways to get around it, then the disability doesn't exist. But just because the world is... There are just those inherent barriers in some areas. So, it's just finding ways around them, and it's just a constant thing of getting out and doing stuff, and self-advocacy. You're just getting out and doing things, figuring it out.

But yeah, then I reckon you definitely have to become really a problem solver as well, constantly. You've always got to think, "Okay, what happens if this and this and this?" There's always so many things that might pop up, so you have to consider everything before you even make the first attempt at doing something.

Gordy Broome:

Then also becoming a micro engineer.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, literally.

Gordy Broome:

Figuring things out.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. Get very well acquainted with Alan Keys.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah, Alan, yep, and all types of bands and straps to hold things together.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just jerry-rigging absolutely everything.

On this topic Gordy shares a bunch of different assistive technology that helps him do the things he loves, including his bike.

Gordy Broome:

I bought a mountain bike, I bought a Bowhead Reach with some quad adaptions, and... Yeah, I guess it's been hard since the injury. I lived in the outdoors, did so many activities, and was just always stoked. And then since the injury and coming back to community, it was just finding that feeling again. I wasn't unhappy, I... Living a very fulfilling life at the moment, but it was just that adrenaline rush and that stoked feeling of doing an activity and having a beer with some friends afterwards, and just that... Yeah, I don't know, I just never quite found it. But then learning to ride my new bike in the last few weeks, it's just been really awesome. Felt like I've kind of found my mojo again, and felt really, just really confident in myself-

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, awesome.

Gordy Broome:

... and feeling like I'm riding really well and picking up a skill and feeling really good about that. I guess just feeling stoked and being back in the bush. Definitely, as a piece of recreational equipment, the bike has been unreal. Yeah, it's been unbelievable. I've only ridden it like four or five times, but just getting back onto that and getting out into the bush and just places you can't take your wheelchair, it's been pretty amazing. Then also all the other feelings and stuff that come with being back, riding with friends and my dog and that stoked feeling.

But then something I guess I use quite often in my everyday day-to-day activities, because I'm in a manual wheelchair. I have my Baytec attachment, the powered front wheel, and that is as... I'm not very good with hills, breaking or pushing up, so if I want to go out into the community, I definitely need assistance. But with the Baytec and have that on, yeah, you can zoom around and it gets you around the community really good. Then you just unclip it if you go get to the shop or whatever, and then you push around in your manual chair and then clip it back on when you need to tackle some hills.

Steve Ralph:

Sick.

Gordy Broome:

There's always the Baytec chat with other people out in the world.

Steve Ralph:

Every man and their dog. Yeah.

Gordy Broome:

"Hey, what is that? How fast is it?"

Steve Ralph:

"That's pretty cool." Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Gordy Broome:

"Too fast." But that's been really awesome. Then just through the summer, I guess, not really AT, well sort of, but a spray bottle.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah.

Gordy Broome:

That's struggling. The heat. That is pretty cool for cooling down.

Steve Ralph:

Totally.

Jumping in here to explain. For those who don't know, cooling down is difficult for anyone with damage to the spinal cord, because it impacts temperature control. An injury to T6, which is midway up your back and above, like mine and Gordy's means that you don't sweat. Also, due to a lack of movement, our circulation isn't as good, all of which makes maintaining a comfortable body temperature, challenging.

Gordy Broome:

Then I've got a couple of random dressing aids that are really handy, from Abilities, just a guy in the States. And active hands, which are awesome to create grip in doing loads of things. And then I wear these gloves called Gloves for Life, to help push and break when I'm in my chair. Not when I'm at home, but when I go out, and I take them everywhere. Also for transferring, I use them every day, always. Yeah, those gloves, they're Gloves for Life-

Steve Ralph:

Are they the palm-grip ones, like with the strap?

Gordy Broome:

Yeah, the palm grip. I can get them on and off, strap them on. Then there's a big rubber pad in the palm for grip, so they're really good for transferring and then also pushing and breaking in the wheelchair. But I definitely use that every day. And an electric toothbrush.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah. The old Oral B smile.

Gordy Broome:

Some simple things, yeah.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, totally. I think the electric toothbrush is a game changer as well. Just so much better.

Speaking of game changers, Gordy and I are both lucky to have joined the disability community at a time where we have the National Disability Insurance Scheme, or NDIS. That said, it can be a bit of a beast to navigate, so I asked Audi to give us his best tips for people who are new to the scheme.

Gordy Broome:

Having a good support coordinator has been a lifesaver, for sure, helping you navigate that system. Yeah. Dan, who I use, he's, he's helped a lot in regards to having things approved, getting funding for certain things, working back and forth with the NDIS coordinator that takes on my case each time. Yeah, he's been a really big advocate for myself and the funding side of things. I think that's a huge help, having the right support coordinator that knows you and understands you and your needs, that's really kind of relatable, I found that has been a huge help.

I think a big one, if you need support, especially with your personal care routine and everything, finding the right team and the right people, can make a huge difference. Not having a different person every day of the week, trying to find the people that you really connect with and you feel really comfortable with, that are reliable. Then, when you're working more towards those goals, for me, goals of independence, it really helps having the right support that are there to encourage me and to help me achieve those goals. So, without the right support team, it's definitely tricky. Would be trickier and not feeling comfortable to ask for help in certain places and things.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, I reckon that's fair. That's huge, building the right team and having the right people around to help. Yeah, because it's like it's a fair bit of fair chunk of your morning you've got to spare with somebody, so-

Gordy Broome:

Yeah.

Steve Ralph:

... you want to make sure you get along and each other and you're comfortable, got the right team.

This is probably one that's a bit related to the whole comments that people make about the Baytec when you're out and about, like, "Oh, what's that thing, mate?" What do you wish people knew about life with spinal cord injury, or what are some misconceptions that people have?

Gordy Broome:

I think a huge one is people see you, they see your paralysis. They see, "Oh, okay, he's in a wheelchair. He can't move his legs." But then that's kind of it. They just think he can't move your legs or something. Or he's got impaired function in his arms and fingers, but then they don't know all the other things of having no core, only having a diaphragm for breathing, coughing, all that kind of stuff. The bladder, bowels... If everyone knew the whole picture and the big picture and just skin pressure, I think that would help people interact a bit more socially accepting as opposed to like, "Oh, great, great to see you out."

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Gordy Broome:

But just not knowing also, because they all see is you can't move your legs kind of thing. But it's a whole iceberg below the water.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, I was going to say the iceberg thing. Yeah, it's so much underneath.

Gordy Broome:

I think people definitely treat you slightly different. Not saying they treat you badly, but they treat you slightly different once they can understand a bit more of the hidden and part of the iceberg.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, for sure. Even to that point of treating differently, pre-injury to post-injury, just out and about, it's definitely a different experience.

Gordy Broome:

Oh yeah. Everyone knows-

Steve Ralph:

Just because people don't know.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah. They don't look or you go to a restaurant or something and you're just looking up and they're talking to Chloe and asking Chloe what I'd like. It's like "Oh...

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, yeah.

Gordy Broome:

"I'll have a pizza, please."

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah, I can still talk.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. And I think it's like people maybe don't know how to talk to people in a wheelchair, but it's like there's nothing different.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah.

Steve Ralph:

Everyone's just a person at the end of the day, just treat everyone the same and it's the easiest, simplest thing to do. But yeah, sometimes because people don't know about the injury, people get lost or confused about how to talk about things.

Gordy Broome:

Yeah.

Steve Ralph:

That's definitely-

Gordy Broome:

Then you get some total legends, that doesn't even cross their mind.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah.

Gordy Broome:

Complete strangers.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just hit it off from the start and it doesn't feel weird.

When Gordy and I chatted for this episode, he and his girlfriend, Chloe, were in the middle of preparing to move from Sydney to Tasmania where they own a property. They've since done that and are in the process of converting a caravan so they can both get out adventuring.

I've linked the adaptive equipment company Gordy mentioned, Abilities, in the show notes, and encourage any adventure seekers to check out Baytec Mobility and the Bowhead, which I've also linked.

Life Rolls On is hosted by me, Steve Ralph, and produced by Melanie Dimmit. The podcast is powered by Hireup, a disability support platform connecting people like me with top notch support workers. Thanks for listening, and catch you soon for the next episode of Life Rolls On.

Gordy Broome: 

Even though my whole world was changed, there was still so much more left.

Kate Nipperess:

I can do anything an able-bodied person can do. I'll just do it my way.

Wayne Warren:

It doesn't matter what it is, you will get to where you want to get to and you will be happy again.

Steve Ralph:

Hello and welcome to Life Rolls On, a podcast series where you'll hear stories from people living well after a life altering injury. This podcast is powered by Hireup, a disability support platform connecting people like me with top-notch support workers. I'm your host, Steve Ralph, someone who's been navigating a life-changing disability since my spinal cord injury five years ago. 

Today I'm chatting with my friend Jess Collins, who lives in Newcastle. Like me, since her spinal cord injury. Jess has been a quadriplegic. We also share a pretty similar level of function. When we caught up for this chat, Jess had just finished training up a new support worker. A big deal, I can tell you, for someone with complex support needs.

Jess Collins:

I feel like I've just marched orders at someone for three hours to tell them what to do, and I feel like when it's someone that I don't normally have, I'm so alert the whole time because ... not that I'm worried that they're going to do anything that could hurt me or anything, but I'm in my mind, I'm like, "Okay, we need to do this now." Then they're like, "Oh, why do we need to do that?" I'm like, "We need to do that because ..." and I feel like I'm a nurse educator… how to do all these things. By the time it's ready for them to go home, I'm like, "I'm exhausted. Put me back in bed."

Steve Ralph:

The math this off, yeah.

Jess Collins:

"I'm done."

Steve Ralph:

Jess and I had our spinal cord injuries within six months of each other. Hers was just after mine, and she actually took my bed at Royal Rehab in Sydney.

Jess Collins:

When I left Royal North Shore, we're in the patient transport and I got out of patient transport to Royal Rehab, and I remember I was so nervous and anxious because you're going from a hospital setting and everyone was like, "Yeah, it's similar to a hospital, but you get your own room and it's a little bit more relaxed." Then I remember literally getting out of the transport and you were sitting there and you were like, "Hey," and I was like, "Hey." Then I just wheeled inside. Then when I got inside, one of the nurses was like, "Oh, did you run into Steve Ralph out there?" and I was like, "Who?" and they were like, "Oh, you're taking over his room and he's just been discharged. He's just come back today to pick something up or do something, but you are going into his room." I was like, "Okay." I was like, "That's such a shame", because it was someone that was similar age to me. It would've been nice to have a friend in there, whereas when I was there, it was just me and all the old people.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly. That's the thing, it definitely helps when you've got someone else kind of similar age and stuff going through at the same time. It was a bummer that we didn't cross over a bit more.

Jess Collins:

I know, it sucked, but, oh, well, I guess it is what it is. But other than that, I don't even really remember the first time that I probably met you. Maybe you came to Royal Rehab for something else. Do you remember?

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, because I used to do yoga there. Did you do yoga a bit as well? I think you came in for a few sessions.

Jess Collins:

Yeah, I did, yes.

Steve Ralph:

That's right. I think that was probably where we first properly had a chat. I forgot about that when I was leaving and you were coming in because I think it was probably just a massive day for both of us. I was probably shitting myself about going home and you were shitting yourself about coming in.

Starting our journey to recovery in the exact same place, Jess and I have kept in touch ever since. The day after we chatted for this podcast episode, Jess started her teaching placement as part of her final year of her university degree, one that she's recently returned to after being injured.

Jess Collins:

So I found a place for placement, which is very exciting.

Steve Ralph:

Sick. Nice.

Jess Collins:

It's so nice to finally have that goal. It's right here and then I'm finally achieving it after all this time. I think because when I had the injury, I was just like, "Oh, I'm never going to finish it. It's going to be such an ordeal and maybe just mentally not knowing how it would all work. But it's slowly coming into place now, which is super exciting. I'm on a year one class. It's actually so weird. I was struggling so much to find a school and I probably tried ... oh, I'm not exaggerating, maybe 10 different schools. There was always something that was wrong, whether it be the staff room was upstairs, not completely accessible, the teacher said yes and then bailed at the last minute or I don't know, all these different things. So I was Zooming with the union, he ended up saying to me, "Okay, it's completely in your hands and you go out and find a school and I'm happy enough for you to go to that school."

Because normally the university organizes a placement, but he was like, "You know what you need better than me." I don't know, just to make things a little bit easier. Anyway, so had this Zoom with the uni and then the next week they did a little fundraiser for me at my surf club that I'm a part of at Redhead and they had a band playing and then there was a woman ... her husband was in the band and she heard me speak and then got in contact with the uni and said, "I'd love to have this girl be in my classroom. She's so inspiring", blah, blah, blah. Then long story short, she got in contact with uni, they got in contact with me and was like, "There's this amazing woman and she's an assistant principal and a year one teacher at the junction primary. Do you know where that school is?" I was like, "Oh, it's literally three blocks from my house."

Steve Ralph:

How good is that?"

Jess Collins:

I said, "Yeah." "Well, go and meet with her. She's keen to have you on board." I met with her and she's just the nicest woman in the world and it's [inaudible 00:05:57].

Steve Ralph:

Oh, sick. That's awesome.

Jess Collins:

It's just like everything happens for a reason.

Steve Ralph:

It's meant to be.

Jess Collins:

Yes.

Steve Ralph:

I asked Jess to take me through how her spinal cord injury occurred.

Jess Collins:

I just finished my last class and to treat myself and with my closest girlfriends, they live up on the Gold Coast. They said, "Why don't you come on up here and we'll go and see our favorite artists together?" So we flew up to the Gold Coast, so excited, went to Vera Blue in Brisbane, and then went back to the Gold Coast for the night with some of the girlfriends, which is where they live. Slept the night there, woke up the next morning and it was a beautiful day.

31st of May, which down here in New South Wales, weather's starting to get a little bit cold then, but it was beautiful up there, like 26 degrees. We went for a drive past the beach and the surf was pretty good down at Snapper Rocks, which is off Rainbow Bay. We're like, "Do you know what? Great idea. Let's all go for a surf." So went and had a quick bit of brekkie at our favorite cafe out there, which we used to always go to, Raw Energy, and get the corn cakes. Then went back to one of my girlfriends, picked up boards and there was the six of us that decided to go for a surf and then went out for a surf at Snapper Rocks. I was riding just like a normal surfboard and then changed boards with one of my girlfriends.

Just because there were so many of us, we were riding a standup paddle board as a Malibu, so probably a little bit too thick and long to be riding as a [inaudible 00:07:50], but the surf wasn't like 10 foot or anything like that. I feel like the story would be so much better if it was. It was only one or two foot. So swapped boards with her and the first wave I caught from out the back came off the back after catching it, and the board hit me, and then I hit the sandbank and straight away face down in the water. Couldn't feel anything or move anything, wasn't sure where I was positioned in the water and completely face down and slight bit of panic went obviously over the top of me as I couldn't roll over and couldn't feel anything and just held my breath for as long as I possibly could.

I thought that I was going to drown and pretty much was like, "Well, this is it here." Then thankfully one of my friends, Casain, she was on the wave in front of me and was about 50 meters away and saw it all happened and then just sprinted over to me as quickly as she could, rolled me over, and I just told her straight away. I had done surf life-saving my whole life, done advanced first aid, all my first aid. I was a lifeguard. I was literally trained to help someone in a spinal cord injury-

Steve Ralph:

In that situation.

Jess Collins:

Yeah. I said to her straight away, I was like, "It's not good because I can't feel anything instantly and I can't move anything." She was like, "That's all right. We just need to get in from out the back into the beach." She's like, "We'll figure it out then." She just reassured me. She called out to two other random surfers that were in the water, and then one of my other friends saw what was going on, was like, "This is a bit strange that everyone's surrounding Jess," so she came over as well. Then someone signaled to the lifeguard as well, and he came in, but it was like his first week of being a lifeguard.

Steve Ralph:

In the deep end.

Jess Collins:

I hate to say this, but it was absolutely no help whatsoever.

Steve Ralph:

Oh, damn.

Jess Collins:

Which was fine because my friends had been lifeguards and lifesavers their whole life, so they're all very trained in it all. One of the girls that was with us is a nurse too, so that made it ... I was in very safe hands.

Steve Ralph:

Good hands, yeah.

Jess Collins:

Then we slowly got our way from the ocean up to the sand, which was the most painful traumatic thing. I think that that hurt probably more than the actual injury because the waves kept coming and crushing. Looking back on it now, I never thought of it to begin with because I think I was so grateful that I was actually turned over and that I was alive because I generally thought I was going to die. But then I feel like with COVID, you start thinking about things and because we were at home for so long, I was like, "Do you know what? In hindsight, my injury", which I hate thinking like this, "But possibly was made worse because of how rocky the ocean was. I feel like if we were somewhere and I was able to be stabilized as soon as I hurt my neck, then maybe it wouldn't be as bad as it is, but I guess you never know.

Then we got onto the sand and there was a woman that was sun baking at the time, and she came over and she was like, "I'm actually a paramedic and a nurse and I can help." Then from pretty much there, then within, I don't know, a couple of minutes there were five ambulances that turned up and came and assessed me, and I guess you know what it's like better than anyone, they go through everything and the head paramedic that was there, I just remember his blue eyes and he was looking at me and I said, "It's not good, is it?" and he said, "We're not sure. You don't know anything until we get to the hospital," and I was like, "No, it's not good. I know enough to know that this isn't good." He said, "It's going to be all right. You're conscious. We'll get you to the hospital and we'll figure it all out," and I was like, "Okay."

Steve Ralph:

Wow.

Jess Collins:

Then it was just mayhem. We went from the Gold Coast as fast as lightning to Brisbane where I was at Princess Alexandria, and they did some MRIs and all the different tests and things. Then I ended up having ... I think it was a 10-hour-long surgery, and then they ended up putting me in a coma just overnight so that I was stabilized and then woke up the next morning, drugged off my face, and I feel like I don't really remember the first couple of days that well, just because I was on so many different pain meds and things like that. I was in so much pain at that point. Then that was it. Then spent four weeks up in Princess Alexandria in Brisbane. After the first four days they tried to take me down from ICU down onto the ward, and I was on the ward for about six hours, and then I ended up with aspirated pneumonia.

It was a little bit touch and go there. Went back up to ICU, and then I was in ICU for four weeks because I had a complete wide out of my left lung, which was very scary. So lots of physio chest therapy. Every hour they would come in and the physios would pump my chest and there was doctors coming in and out, my oxygen stats were fluctuating all over the place, which was very, very scary, especially for my family to have to see me go through all of that. They would call codes in the hospital and sometimes the nurses would look at me [inaudible 00:13:58] and they're like, "You're going to be okay, but we just need to get your oxygen starts off," and I'd look over to the machine, it was low 70s. I'm like, "Oh, am I going to be fine here?"

Steve Ralph:

Oh, that's not ideal.

Jess Collins:

Not ideal at all. After four weeks in ICU, then I went down to Royal North Shore and I spent four weeks there in the spinal ward and then finished off my little stint there. Then I spent four months nearly to the day at Royal Rehab down in [inaudible 00:14:31]. I was only talking to one of my friends, she came down from Queensland to visit recently, and she was like, "Jess, I want you to know I'm always thinking of you and I dream about you every couple of weeks." I said to her, I was like, "Do you dream about me now or do you dream about me pre-injury?" She was like, "What do you mean by that?" I was like, "Well, do you dream about me in a chair or do you dream about me able-bodied?" She said, "I dream about you both." She said, "Sometimes I dream about you and you have your injury. It is your injury. Sometimes I dream about you pre, sometimes post."

She said, "What do you dream?" and I said, "It's so weird because I've been living in this body ..." I guess I've been living this body for 28 years. That sounds ridiculous to say, but I've been living this life for so long, nearly five years. But I still do dream both, which is so bizarre how that happens. What about you? What do you dream?

Steve Ralph:

I'm the same, bit of both. Depends on what the dream is, but sometimes it'd be either. I reckon you're right. It's like it's such this distinctive moment of such things have changed between before and after that it's like ... you're right, it's such a turning point. But for, I think, other people, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just this, "Oh, you're still, you're just sitting down. It's whatever", and I think it can just affect so many people so differently I guess. It's a pretty crazy thing to think. It's just like, "Oh, sometimes it's both." It's not just one or the other and you're still the same person.

Jess Collins:

Yeah, still the same person.

Steve Ralph:

It's like having the identity of who you are not change because of it is sometimes a challenge to get your head around because you're so worried about what's happened and stuff that you almost do feel like you're a different person in some ways, but you're not. I don't know. It's a hard thing to explain.

Jess Collins:

Well, and I feel like for some people, when they find out about you having your injury, if you're not that close with them and then they haven't seen you since the injury and then you catch up with them, I feel like so many people, and I'm sure that you get this as well, they say to me after I've had an interaction with them and chatted with them and they've seen my personality is still exactly the same, they're like, "Jess, I'm just so shocked. You're just the same person." I'm like, "Yeah, I am the same person. It's just that physically I have this absolute shit show of a thing that happened to me, but I'm still the same person."

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly.

Jess Collins:

My mind's still here.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly. You're going to still be you. That's the thing. Also, it's same for me. Confuses me when people sort of think like that because you're like, "What do you expect? I'm the same person. I'm not going to just completely changed because of it." It obviously shapes you a bit and you've got to think about things a bit differently or you've got to do things a certain way or whatever. So definitely changes some stuff, I think, but the core of who you are is always going to be there. It's no different.

It sounds like you pretty much knew straight away ... you realized the impact because you had all the first aid training and you've been a lifesaver and everything, so you knew a fair bit about it straight away.

Jess Collins:

Yeah, pretty much straightaway I was like, "This is not good." I still remember when I was laying there on the sand and the paramedic was like, "Can you feel this? Can you feel this?" and I was like, "No, I can't," and that's not a good sign because I knew ... my knowledge from being a life guard and lifesaver basically taught me that. But I feel like it wasn't until I got to Royal North Shore and then they start to have meetings and things with your family and you're talking to social workers-

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, the family meetings.

Jess Collins:

That's when things started to get real. When I was in ICU, I feel like the focus was on keeping me healthy and trying to get rid of the pneumonia. Whereas when I got to Royal North Shore, it was like, "Okay, now that you are stable, this is what is going to happen, and we're here to help you, but you need to know all these things." I remember the first day being there, because I hadn't actually gotten up into the chair really when I was up in Brisbane, so when I got down to Sydney, I was like, "Wait, what do you mean I have to get out of the bed?" I'm like, "How do we do that? How is this all going to work? I have to go and sit on this thing in the bathroom. What is going on?" I feel like once I got there, that was when I was like, "Okay, this is very serious. This isn't something that they're predicting is going to heal, so what does this look like for the rest of my life?"

Steve Ralph:

How's everything going to work?

Jess Collins:

Also, is it the rest of my life or am I going to be one of those people that is fine? Because you hear ... I feel like when I have the injury, so many people will be like, "Oh, I know someone, or I watched this thing and someone had the same injury as you, and then now they're fine." I'm like, "Okay, maybe I'll be one of those people, but also I'm fine at the moment, but..." I don't know.

Steve Ralph:

I'm in two minds as to how much those kind of things would help people. It's coming from a place of like, "All right, I just want to give you some hope," but it's also underneath that statement it's also like this, "You're not fine now." It's like "You will get better". It's like, "But I feel okay now as well," and you have to get okay with how things are now. Of course, don't take your eye off that. If one day in the future you think, "Okay, that'd be awesome," of course that's good to have some hope or something to work towards maybe or have this thing in the future to look at, but you've also really got to come to terms with it and be okay with how things are because there's still so much good stuff in life that you're not missing and you still can be fine in yourself without having to physically change. People who are just coming from a place of trying to make you feel okay, but it's like "I do feel okay, mate." It's just like it shows the lack of understanding, I guess, of the whole thing.

Jess Collins:

Absolutely.

Steve Ralph:

Like you said, you do hear all those stories and early on you never write it off and you think, "Oh, maybe it'll be sweet." I remember one day in the shower at North Shore, I felt like a bit of water on my toe and I was like, "This is it, we're good. We're on, we're sorted." I was like-

Jess Collins:

[inaudible 00:21:24].

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, "I'm sweet in a couple of days. It's all good." I remember thinking ... because in my head I'm like, "Well, the toe is the first part from the brain, so surely if that's got something going on, we're sweet. It's just a matter of time before the blanks are filled in." Unfortunately, it didn't quite go that way, but in those early days, you're so vulnerable to that kind of chat as well. I think it's a hard thing to come to terms to. Actually, just on that, in terms of coming to terms with the situation and all that, was there anything that helped you adapt or embrace the different way of doing stuff post-injury? Or is there anything you'd recommend to people that maybe they're first few months in?

Jess Collins:

Find a very supportive network and surround yourself with them. Because I found that as much as I was a person that was dealing with the injury, yes, people around me were also dealing with the injury, but that is what helped me deal with the injury. Gosh, how many times did I just say deal with the injury? My family and my close friends, when it wasn't waking up and learning about what bowel care and catheters are and what you need to do health wise and skin checking and all these things and physio and making sure you're using your muscles and blah, blah, blah. When it wasn't working on the job of keeping my body healthy and trying to get as much out of it as I possibly could while I was at rehab, I still wanted to live a life.

I feel like surrounding myself with people that was ... whether it was just playing a fun game together or going out and eating a meal or getting away from rehab or I don't know, just telling jokes with each other, watching something funny or listening to something all together, that's what really helped me, I think, overcome it all. A bit of a distraction technique almost, and just like, yes, this is happening to you, but there's still life that's away from this. Your whole focus right now doesn't need to just be on you and this injury and sitting in a room and only doing everything involved with the injury. There's still 100 other things out there that can be done and can be fun still.

Steve Ralph:

That's exactly it. It's like finding some fun in amongst that in the early days is so important because otherwise, it's just all hospital stuff. It's all just like, "Here's your physio routine, here's this, here's that" and it's so structured and clinical and there's no fun in it. As much as everyone in those environments try to make it good, it's just such a rough thing to go through and to deal with. Like you said, if you've got people around you that that can bring a bit of that energy and that fun into it, definitely shows that it doesn't just have to be about that. In the future, once you're, I guess, out and about again doing things, the way that you live again becomes more normal and back to what you want to be doing, I suppose.

Jess Collins:

Yeah.

Steve Ralph:

Is there any misconceptions or any things that people say to you or attitudes that people might have even subconsciously about spinal injury that you wish people knew something different about? Is there anything you'd kind of want to demystify for people or change the way people think?

Jess Collins:

I don't know if it's a misconception about spinal cord injury specifically, but I feel like it's just an assumption that people make. I've been stopped on the street before by ... I feel like a lot of the time it's older people and they're like, "Oh, wow, you're too pretty to be in a wheelchair." Or they'll just assume that maybe you're not mentally okay. I think that people are curious as to why I would be in a wheelchair a lot of the time. People just stare or come and ask questions like, "Why are you in a wheelchair?" But I'm like, "Firstly, I'm not going to tell a stranger ... I don't ask you about the worst day of your life, so why are you asking me about mine?"

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly.

Jess Collins:

Also, I feel like in society we're just too judgy. Who cares what people are doing and how people are living? It's no one's business, so I feel like that's one thing that is probably the only thing that really irks me is that sort of a thing, and common misconceptions that you can't do anything and that people just sit inside all day, that there's no life to live. It's like no, I can still work and I can still go and I don't know, have all these great relationships and I can still be a part of the community and I can still go out and about. There's still so many things that you can do just because you've had an injury, whereas I think a lot of people just think you just stay at home and watch TV and sit in the room all day. It's like, no, we're out here living and contributing to the community and I don't know, killing it.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly.

Jess Collins:

[inaudible 00:27:00]. Everyone I know that's in the chair is doing amazing things.

Steve Ralph:

Speaking of doing amazing things, Jess is smashing her teaching placement. Thanks so much, Jess, for this chat. So great to hear everything you've been up to. Life Rolls On is hosted by me, Steve Ralph, and produced by Melanie Dimmit. The podcast is powered by Hireup, a disability support platform connecting people like me with top-notch support workers. Thanks for listening and catch you soon for the next episode of Life Rolls On.

Gordy Broome: 

Even though my whole world was changed, there was still so much more left.

Kate Nipperess:

I can do anything an able-bodied person can do, I'll just do it my way.

Wayne Warren:

It doesn't matter what it is, you will get to where you want to get to and you will be happy again.

Steve Ralph:

Hello, and welcome to Life Rolls On, a podcast series where you'll hear stories from people living well after a life-altering injury. This podcast is powered by Hireup, a disability support platform connecting people like me with top-notch support workers. 

I'm your host, Steve Ralph, someone who's been navigating a life-changing disability since my spinal cord injury five years ago. In this episode, you'll meet a friend of mine who I met right after my injury during my six months at Royal Rehab center in the Sydney suburb of Ryde. His name is Wayne Warren, and he's extremely funny. 

For this chat, I called him pulled over on the side of the road in his new home state of Queensland.

Wayne Warren:

Oh, look where I am. Oh, it's just... I don't know where I am. Look.

Steve Ralph:

So, you're just pulled over some random spot?

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, just random, but it's in front of a nice house, but I don't know.

Steve Ralph:

Awesome.

Wayne Warren:

I don't know what that is.

Steve Ralph:

During our chat, we revisit our time at Royal Rehab, reflecting on what we were told we would and wouldn't be able to do in our vastly changed bodies, and how this news was delivered. While our recovery journeys pretty much ran parallel, they started very differently. Wayne's spinal cord injury came as a result of a spinal tumor, which was caused by a bacterial infection known as golden staph.

Wayne Warren:

So, I got an infection of golden staph and it caused a tumor and it ate away at my nervous system from C5, which made me a complete quad. And then, I became an incomplete quad down the track. So, I could start using the beautiful hands a bit.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly. Back to being a hand model.

Wayne Warren:

Oh, yeah. 

Steve Ralph:

Some George Costanza stuff. That's awesome.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, And then ended up at Ryde, and then from Ryde, I ended up there for four months and they got me on track.

Steve Ralph:

Prior to joining me at Royal Rehab, Wayne spent about three months stuck in a hospital that really wasn't set up for spinal cord injuries at all.

Wayne Warren:

In Nappies.

Steve Ralph:

Didn't you bring in some random design nappies?

Wayne Warren:

I did. They told me they were disgusting. But that was all right, I didn't care.

Steve Ralph:

Obviously it doesn't matter.

Wayne Warren:

And then when I got to Royal Ryde, I was just like, "I'm in heaven. This is heaven. Now, these are my people, now I can relate to people."

Steve Ralph:

It was, I think just the main thing, having people around in the same situation, that definitely made a difference. Just having all of you guys around during that time, I think you learned a lot from each other. And you also just know that you're not going through it by yourself, you're not doing it alone.

Wayne Warren:

Without it, I would've been stuffed. I'm so glad I went there, hey.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, that was definitely a good place to be at the time. Learned a lot, and definitely have learned how to move on and deal with things pretty well.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, and did they tell you would never walk again, and you'd be a complete quad?

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, my first memory when I woke up was just, lucky to be alive, basically. I was intubated, so couldn't speak or anything, communicate. And both my arms weren't working at all at that stage, and I wasn't breathing independently. So, it was pretty tough. I think I remember my mum and dad and my brother floating around and they, I think, had a meeting with the doctors first. They said, "Oh, there's no chance Steve's ever going to walk again. Forget even that question. More of a question is will he even be able to breathe by himself? Will he be able to move his arms or do anything independently ever again?" That's the question of will we ever be able to get off the ventilator was kind of the hurdle.

Wayne Warren:

Wow.

Steve Ralph:

So, immediately reframed all those expectations of thinking, "Oh, yeah, I'll just walk out of this and be fine," it was more just like, "Oh my God, will I be able to breathe?" But anyway, all my family, I think had that information, and the doctors didn't tell me because it was just a bit freaky. Then a few days later they kind of had the conversation of, "This is what's happened, this is what we found." And like you said, they basically kind of broke the news to you that, yeah, "Although we don't really know"

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, they broke it to me weeks after.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. It's a bit of -

Wayne Warren:

You think they'd broke it to you earlier, but I guess they should... I don't know.

Steve Ralph:

I guess it's never really a good time to find out-

Wayne Warren:

Because you can't use your hands, and you can't use anything, and you've got to be fed, and you've got to be this, and you've got to be that. And you're like, "Is no one going to tell me anything?" That's what I was thinking.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, totally. At the time I was like, there's never a good time to hear it, but the more information the better.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, that's what I think. They told me about a week or two later, and then took me into a room, took my mum, took my sister, and said that, he'll probably never be able to walk again, and that you'll probably be a quadriplegic. And so, we don't know how far you'll get down down the track, but this is what you've got and we'll see how you go in the future.

Steve Ralph:

Bloody hell.

Wayne Warren:

And I said, "Well, is there any way of getting me out of here?" Get me the hell out of here, that's what I wanted. I just wanted to get out of there, hey? I couldn't believe it. Didn't you just want to get out of bed?

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, I get pretty keen to just keep moving and keep doing stuff, and I've always been like that, I think. So when this happened, it was crazy, it was just being strapped down, and it's hard.

Wayne Warren:

That was the hardest bit, hey? It wasn't the bit that you're not going to be able to walk again, it's just a bit that, I've got to get out, I've got to move. There's got to be a way, can't someone work this out? That's why I didn't have a chance to get depressed or anything, because I was trying to work out a way of managing what I've got.

Steve Ralph:

For both Wayne and myself, part of this meant learning about disability support workers, people who could help us do what we need and want to do each day, which could be anything from personal care to hitting the pub. Introducing support into your life, especially from strangers, can be hard to get your head around. Doing this successfully all hangs on getting the right person or team for the job.

Wayne Warren:

And that takes a little bit of time, I reckon. Then you have to be your own boss. And I was never anyone's boss. I wasn't a boss. But then you have to direct them in what to do and what to do properly, because you learnt that from Royal Rehab, and some of them didn't have any clue at all how to look after a person with spinal cord. Nothing. So, you'd kind of have to teach them.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, and it's a weird thing. It's like you are trying to teach them something that, yeah, you're going through it, but you're not actually the one that needs to do it. So, you've never done what you're saying you need to do, but you kind of just need to be an expert in it all of a sudden. It's really weird.

Wayne Warren:

It is the strangest thing.

Steve Ralph:

What about driving as well? Obviously.

Wayne Warren:

So, driving took quite a bit. So, I had to get an OT, and then an assessor to watch me drive a car because... so left leg doesn't really work, but my right foot does. Just. It kind of verges on the brake and the accelerator at the same time, and then I can just move it. So anyway, I had to trick them and say that I could drive a car. And so, the hands were all right, but so they took two assessors, one in the back, and the OT, and they gave me my license.

Steve Ralph:

Driving is something I thought I'd never do again after my injury. But like Wayne, I'm now back on the road. I asked Wayne, what's something he's doing now that he thought was off the cards for good.

Wayne Warren:

Swim in the ocean.

Steve Ralph:

Nice. And you do that all the time, right?

Wayne Warren:

Well, yeah, I did it twice last week.

Steve Ralph:

…

Wayne Warren:

And I do it on my own.

Steve Ralph:

You're doing a 10 K swim soon, right?

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, 10 K. I've told everyone, I've got sponsors, yeah, everyone wants to put their two bobs' worth in, which is good. What's yours?

Steve Ralph:

One of them would probably be living in my own place again. I've always wanted to do it, and kind of always had the dream to do it again, but didn't know how it would actually come about. So, I think that's one pretty cool one. Also driving. It's an overused example, but it's another one.

Wayne Warren:

Oh, yeah, that's the best one.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, it's probably the biggest impact one, in terms of just being able to get out and do your own thing. That's pretty…

Wayne Warren:

Changes everything, doesn't it?

Steve Ralph:

A hundred percent, yeah. That was a completely whole new mindset when you can just realise, "Shit, I can just drive anywhere I want, do whatever I want again." It's good.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, and just get out wherever you want. Well, kind of wherever you want…

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, wherever it works, ish.

Wayne Warren:

Most places. Ish, yeah. Except if it's on a hill or something, which is not good, but whatever.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly. What do you wish people knew about this kind of injury? Or what kind of misconceptions are there that you wish people just knew, or didn't ask you about all the time?

Wayne Warren:

It's weird, hey? Because people ask such stupid questions. Or they'll tell you about their knee operation, or they'll tell you about their problem that they've got, and it's nowhere near your problem. So, at the gym and stuff, they try to push my hips forward and I said, "Well, my glutes don't work, how can my hips go forward?" blah, blah, blah. And I always go, "Why don't you just jump into my body and actually have a go and see how it works? Because what you want me to do is near impossible. And I know you're trying to do the best for me and make things work," but they have no idea. And when you don't have muscles that work from the brain, even to your body, even to your dick, as you well know, nothing goes that well. And it's so complicated, and how do you explain it to people?

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly. It's so hard to…

Wayne Warren:

Unless I swear at them and tell them, "Jump in my body and shut up." I should do it better than that, shouldn't it? I should be nicer.

Steve Ralph:

I don't know. Like you said, it's a hard thing to try and communicate to someone in one second, isn't it?

Wayne Warren:

I think that's impossible, to explain it to someone. Spinal cord is completely different than anything. The nerves don't tell the brain to touch the muscles to touch the... it's too complicated.

Steve Ralph:

It's so complicated.

Wayne Warren:

That's what I believe.

Steve Ralph:

And every single injury to the spinal cord is different. You could get 10,000 people with spinal cord injury and line them up and every single one would be slightly a different thing.

Wayne Warren:

I always remember when you told me once that if there was one thing out of the whole thing that you would rather not have, and that's the catheter. I often go, "Well, poor old Ralphie, he hates the catheter as much as I hate the catheter." Because I would rather not walk and not do it, if I didn't have this fucking bag hanging out of my gut.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, it'd be so much easier just to whip her out, Just do it as nature intended. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent, so much easier.

Wayne Warren:

That's the only... It would be harder to have a piss, right? Because you wouldn't be able to get up properly, and get over to the…but still, it's just a pain in the arse.

Steve Ralph:

I'm sure you'd find a way, there'd be a way to do it somehow. But yeah, it's just sucks. And having to get it changed, and all the infection risk, and the pain, and always worrying about it.

Wayne Warren:

And going on a plane. What about once when I was on a plane, and I was by myself, just coming to wherever. And I said to the steward, "Could you take this?" And they said, "What's that? No, I can't." I'm saying, "Well, what do you want me to do with it?" I'm like, "I can't just go and empty it." They go, "No, we can't touch that." I said, "Go and get your manager, because obviously someone's got to take this-

Steve Ralph:

Oh my god.

Wayne Warren:

“Take this off me. Where am I going to put it?" You know what I mean?

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, what do you want me to do with it?

Wayne Warren:

[Laugh] took their superior to go and put it in the bin.

Steve Ralph:

That's hilarious.

Wayne Warren:

Oh my God. Yeah, what can you do?

Steve Ralph:

Such a disaster, so awkward to talk about. You're just like, "Oh, excuse me. Can you just take this? Can you go to the bathroom for me?"

Wayne Warren:

Yeah. You stop getting embarrassed after... I don't get embarrassed anymore, at all.

Steve Ralph:

Exactly, yeah. It's just like, it is what it is, got to get done.

Wayne Warren:

I used to, but now I don't at all.

Steve Ralph:

That's so good.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah. And I'm sure you're the same.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, same now. Yah, now it's like, it's all good. What is the best piece of assistive tech that you've come across since you got your injury?

Wayne Warren:

Well, is the Omeo... should you say-

Steve Ralph:

Omeo's bloody good.

Wayne Warren:

It is bloody good.

Steve Ralph:

Jumping in here to explain what an Omeo is. It's basically a seated segue, two-wheeled wheelchair that you control by leaning forward and back to change direction and pace.

Wayne Warren:

You wouldn't give that to every person with a spinal cord injury, I don't think. I don't know.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, I think caution

Wayne Warren:

You saw it.

Steve Ralph:

... should be advised when utilising that.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, I reckon it should have a caution. But I think that's the best thing that happened to me, because I can get on the beach by myself.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. And it's also just what it allows you to do, just to actually go for a poke along the beach, that's just so good. Just get onto the sand again.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, or even go with someone on a bike ride. You know what I mean?

Steve Ralph:

Yeah. And the biggest AT fail that you've had happen. What was the biggest fail?

Wayne Warren:

Oh, Jesus. Have you had a fail?

Steve Ralph:

Well, I did have one when I was up visiting you and you saved me, when we tried to go for that bushwalk with the big chunky X8 chair, the all-terrain one. And I just leaned back, and the cabling had been moved, and it got pinched underneath the tilt mechanism, and it just completely shorted the whole thing. And it just blew up, smoke and sparks coming out everywhere. And then we had to push it up the hill-

Wayne Warren:

…

Steve Ralph:

... everyone pushed it up the hill, and then these bushwalkers came past and they had to help us because it was too heavy to get it into the car. And then, we were in the middle of nowhere, so we're like an hour and a bit from. And luckily we were up your way, so we could take your power chair and utilize that for a day, borrow that, which was amazing. Because otherwise we would've been absolutely stuffed. And then, just luckily the support worker that was helping me out, her husband was a electrical engineer guru type operator, and he came around the next day and patched it up, which was super lucky.

Wayne Warren:

Fixed it.

Steve Ralph:

So, yeah, some…

Wayne Warren:

What are the chances of that?

Steve Ralph:

It's like you said, you could see that as a struggle, or you can see it as a challenge, and bit of problem solving, and a bit of fun. And we got it done, so that was good.

Wayne Warren:

You know what I learned? And I guess you know this too. If your wheelchair ever does break down, you can ring the NRMA and they come and get you.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, they can come and help you out, right?

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, they do it here too.

Steve Ralph:

That's awesome.

Wayne Warren:

Which is good, but I've never had to ring them.

Steve Ralph:

Yep, touch wood.

Wayne Warren:

Touch wood.

Steve Ralph:

That's awesome.

Wayne Warren:

But I tell you what, when you don't have your wheels, you just go into like, "Oh my..." like you did too. You don't have wheels to get around, and I imagine how you felt. That would've been shocking. But you just…

Steve Ralph:

Oh, man, it was kind of like we were saying about when we were stuck in hospital, and all you want to do is just get up, and no matter what's going on, you just want to get out of there and get moving again. And you realize how much the AT plays a big part of it when it doesn't work, when it fails, the impact. It's everything.

Wayne Warren:

There's nothing worse than that. That would be the biggest horror of all, when your wheels don't work.

Steve Ralph:

Hundred percent. A lot changes after you've sustained a serious spinal cord injury. So, I ask Wayne, what's one of the biggest changes that he's grappled with?

Wayne Warren:

I miss the relationship thing. I miss having a relationship.

Steve Ralph:

Do you reckon you'll meet someone? Or would you be keen to get into a relationship at some point?

Wayne Warren:

And I even try the dating sits. And then, I must last maybe an hour, and then I'll go, "No, no, no, can't... No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no no." Because to be able to explain to people... No. Did you ever do it? No, you never did it?

Steve Ralph:

No, not really. I've never-

Wayne Warren:

You would've never needed to. You had too many chicks lining up.

Steve Ralph:

Oh, mate, yeah, just had to knock 'em back. It was, "Next." No, not really. But before my injury, I had a dating app and stuff, but I never used anything like that since my injury, no. I don't know, I just never really felt like... Exactly like you said, like, "Fuck, how do you put yourself out there like that?" I think it's pretty confronting. For me, I was so scared of that, to be honest.

Wayne Warren:

Oh, and I just tried it recently, and I did, I lasted an hour, and then I deleted it. I'm like, "No way. No way, how do you..." Anyway. But I kind of miss that. I do miss that, yep. But that's about it. And I don't know if you're taping this, but there's always prostitution.

Steve Ralph:

I think that's play on, who cares? That's totally fine. No, look, honestly, that actually is a big topic though, because I've seen some stuff online about where NDIS would draw the line on that or not and these kind of things. But to your point of, how do you try and kickstart a relationship? And with the struggles of that, how do you get that human need met as well? So, I think there's definitely a lot to be said for funding that. I think there's a really good case for all of that.

On the topic of the NDIS, Australia's National Disability Insurance Scheme, Wayne shares his top tip for people who are new to this space.

Wayne Warren:

I would suggest for everyone to be self-managed. That's what I-

Steve Ralph:

If you've got the time to do it, then that's definitely an easier option.

Wayne Warren:

Well, it's easy to pay a bill. It's easy to work out for yourself. And it gives something to do, I reckon.

Steve Ralph:

Yep, totally. And like you said, it's just a better way to... you can make it work the way you kind of need it, I suppose, in more of a effective way for yourself.

Wayne Warren:

Well, where would we be without the NDIS? We would've been fucked.

Steve Ralph:

Oh, a hundred percent, yeah. There's a lot of people that say a lot of bad things about it, but that it's really, really a pretty amazing system. And I don't know what it was beforehand, I wasn't really across any of that part.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, me too.

Steve Ralph:

But you hear a lot of stories that it was pretty bad. And now it's improved so much. And there's definitely a bit of improvement to go, but overall it's pretty good. What advice do you have for people who've had one of these injuries, or something like this, a life-altering injury like this? What would you say to them now? Now that we're a few years on, what would you tell them?

Wayne Warren:

Well, I've got to say, so I went to the Brisbane Hospital, it was the spinal cord hospital in Brisbane, it's the only one in Brisbane, and I go there once a year. Anyway, I was getting in and out of my car and this guy's in his wheelchair, and he just had, the same thing happened to him, with a abscess on his spine. I said to him, "It doesn't matter what it is, you will get to where you want to get to, and you will be happy again." Because obviously, he was bit unhappy, but he's like, "Mate, that's amazing." I'm like, "You can do it." Anyone can do anything, I reckon. After all the people that we've seen on the internet, and the Christopher Reeves, and what's that Perry's name? He's amazing.

Steve Ralph:

Perry Cross, yeah, yeah, yeah. Unreal bloke. So, I think that's a good shout. I think people just don't give themselves credit for what they have the potential to do. They don't see their potential anymore, where once you shift, mentally, you turn on and say, "Okay, I can do something. I'll work towards this." And you can definitely get to where you want to go again. It probably looks a bit different, but you can do it.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, but everything that we... as your hands work, as this works, and as you grab this, and you could do that, it was pretty amazing how you got so excited over something so silly.

Steve Ralph:

Some little things, yeah.

Wayne Warren:

But you got to do it, A and then all of sudden, you can hold a drink, which is amazing.

Steve Ralph:

Yeah, exactly.

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, so I reckon it's a lot to look forward to. You'd have the same thing, wouldn't you?

Steve Ralph:

Oh, a hundred percent. There's all these little recovery wins you get along the way, when you look back and you're like, "Oh my God, kind of come a long way." Even driving now, I was like, "Shit, I don't think I'll be able to ever do that." When we were at Royal Rehab, we had months and months there where we could have done the driving assessments, and I just didn't even consider it at the time. I was like, "I'm not... It just can't be done. I'm ruling it out." But then about a year later, I kind of was feeling like, "Oh, no, I think I've got enough in my arms, I could try it." And it just took mentally to come back to it and think, "Oh, yeah, I'll give it a go." But there are also struggles as well. And I think that's important to talk about as well. You [inaudible 00:22:50] striving towards things and that sort of thing, so what have been some of the big struggles-

Wayne Warren:

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Steve Ralph:

... that we've dealt with? What are some of those big struggles?

Wayne Warren:

Everything's a challenge. I don't see it as a struggle. I just see it as a challenge. Because if it was a struggle, then it makes it hard. If it's a challenge, then you're going to get something from it. I think it's in the mindset of where you want to be, and what you want to do, and how you can do it. That's what I believe. But not everyone thinks like me, and not everyone thinks like you. And people say to me, "Oh, I can't believe you're in such good spirits about your situation." I'm like, "What? What do you mean?" I only think positively. I don't get depressed that much at all, really. I can't really say I do get depressed. Because if I do feel bad, I'll do something to counteract the depression, like do something stupid. Or just have a joke, or just joke with someone, or just ring someone. But I never try not to ever get... And I get out every day. So, with the coffee shops here, they all know me now, and so I just have to bip my horn and they come out-

Steve Ralph:

They know

Wayne Warren:

... and they put the machine out there. Yeah, they know. So, I've got all my favorite coffee shops, and they come out and help me.

Steve Ralph:

That's so good.

Wayne Warren:

So good.

Steve Ralph:

That was my mate, Wayne, a total legend who's living a life full of laughs after injury. I've included links to a couple of things that we mentioned, spinal cord injury advocate Perry Cross, and the Omeo mobility device, in the show notes. Life Rolls On is hosted by me, Steve Ralph, and produced by Melanie Dimmitt. The podcast is powered by Hireup, a disability support platform connecting people like me with top-notch support workers. Thanks for listening, and catch you soon for the next episode of Life Rolls On.

Gordy Broome: 

Even though my whole world was changed, there was still so much more left.

Kate Nipperess:

I can do anything an able-bodied person can do. I'll just do it my way.

Wayne Warren:

It doesn't matter what it is. You will get to where you want to get to and you will be happy again.

Steve Brown:

Hello, and welcome to Life Rolls On, a podcast series where you'll hear stories from people living well after a life-altering injury. This podcast is powered by Hireup, disability support platform connecting people like me with top-notch support workers. I'm your host, Steve Brown, someone who's been navigating a life-changing disability since my spinal cord injury five years ago.

In this episode, I'm speaking with Chloe Kennedy, who I met several years ago when we both were playing wheelchair rugby. For this chat, we're catching up just as she's ramping back up to full-time work in her role with New South Wales Health Pathology, where she's a business development officer. Chloe also runs her own business called Beyond Adaptive, which offers all kinds of adaptive equipment to help people like me and Chloe go about their day.

Chloe Kennedy:

So now, full-time, trying to do my little side business and look after a three-and-a-half-year-old.

Steve Brown:

Yeah. Wow, that's a lot going on.

Chloe Kennedy:

[Laugh].

Steve Brown:

That is epic. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, just to chuck that in there as well, just to add a little bit of some action to it. Yeah.

Chloe and her partner had their daughter, Aurora, in the years after Chloe sustained a spinal cord injury. In 2017 while skiing, Chloe was involved in an accident that saw her become a C6 quadriplegic. I'll let Chloe tell you more about her injury in a moment, but first, I ask her "and how's Aurora going?"

Chloe Kennedy:

Good. Yeah, so just the last two weeks since I've gone full time, she's now in daycare five days a week. So it was kind of breaking my heart last week because she was still adjusting and she was crying and "I don't want to go to school" or, I mean, it's daycare. "I don't want to go to school." And I was like, "Oh, maybe I shouldn't have done this. Maybe I shouldn't be full time." But she's been getting herself dressed and, "Oh, let's go to school" and so I feel a bit better this week.

Steve Brown:

That's awesome. Yeah, so she's done a bit of a 180 and keen for it now. Pretty crazy going full time. How's it feel going back five days?

Chloe Kennedy:

I don't know if I'm coming or going? So it's still getting used to it. At least it's the job. I haven't changed jobs or anything, so at least I know what I'm doing.

Steve Brown:

That's good.

Chloe Kennedy:

But I think I'm just still getting used to it, trying to work in my exercise physiology and my physio and "Oh, when am I going to talk to the OT?

Steve Brown:

Yes, a hundred percent.

Chloe Kennedy:

When am I going to do Aurora swimming lessons? And when I was part-time, it was easy. I did everything on my days off.

Steve Brown:

On the days off. Yeah, exactly. Just have time, yeah.

Chloe Kennedy:

When you've got two days off in a weekday, it's easy. I'll do my exercise physiology Monday, Aurora's swimming lessons Tuesday. Oh, I've got to go and do that medical appointment. Sure, let's do it on my day off. Now, try to work all of that in while working and pick up, drop off, all of that.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, geez. Yeah, there's heaps going on. As you can hear, Chloe has a very full life, something she might not have imagined having after she was seriously injured.

Chloe Kennedy:

My spine-niversary, I call it, was two days ago.

Steve Brown:

Oh wow. Nice. That's such a good name for it.

Chloe Kennedy:

Yeah, it's been six years for me. I was skiing in Italy and I didn't know at the time. I only found out a few years later when I was speaking to the emergency team that rescued me that there was a lot of fog on the mountain. So when I came down, I couldn't see where I was going. Ended up at a fork where there's probably the beginners run on one side and the black run on the other side, ended up on the black run. And I think I did sort of a catapult, landed on my neck, broke it, and then went to hospital, was put in a coma for eight days. So the first week I've got no memory and then came to, all my family were there, had flown to Italy, and then I think I was there for about another week, just getting a little bit more strength before they put me on a flight to come back to Australia. And then I guess the next nine months I spent in rehab.

Steve Brown:

Yeah. Nice. At Royal Rehab or did you go to Prince of Wales?

Chloe Kennedy:

I went to Prince of Wales. I started at Royal North Shore for about a month and then went to Prince of Wales for the rest.

Steve Brown:

At the time, did you realize the injury straight away or in terms of the impact?

Chloe Kennedy:

No way. It took, I think a while for it to fully resonate with me and to realize what had happened. I don't know if it was all the drugs that they put you on, and that's why I didn't know. But yeah, I think as the weeks went on, it sort of became clear and it was a bit depressing and all the different emotions, but we get through it. I think everyone goes through something similar.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. Because I was the same. I feel like an idiot now, but looking back on it, I didn't really know much about spinal or anything, so when I got hurt I was like, I just was like, oh yeah, surely you'd be right. After a while, you feel young and healthy. But yeah, it's a bit weird what's going on right now, but surely.

Chloe Kennedy:

I said to my sister in Italy, I understand I'll need a wheelchair for a little bit because my body's going to be weak, but I won't need it forever, it's okay.

Steve Brown:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hectic.

Chloe Kennedy:

I don't know what else to expect and I was so naive to spinal cord injuries too. Probably, I get annoyed now when people make assumptions, but I was probably one of those people that made assumptions and "Oh, someone's in a wheelchair. Oh, they just can't walk." No, that's not the case. Some people can walk and some people have feeling and some people have some movement and there's so much.

Steve Brown:

Totally, yeah, every single injury is different. There's something unique about every situation and also that the no walking is just one thing that's going on that they're dealing with. There's so many things you got to manage.

Chloe Kennedy:

Oh my God, tell me about it. And then when you meet people that are just "Oh, so will you walk one day?" It's like, probably not, but that's the least of my worries.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's a whole yarn of things that we could talk about about it. But yeah, there's so many other frustrating, I guess, things that you got to manage along the way that, as you said, we were probably exactly in that camp of people that didn't know about all those things. But yeah, once you're in the situation, you go, okay, yeah, there's a lot more going on than you first think or first realized. So yeah, because I was the same. I had no idea about that stuff and I was like, yeah, it's a bit kind of steep learning curve you've got to go through there. Did anything help you come to terms with the injury itself in those early days? Anything that you'd recommend if people had maybe just a few months ago had something like this happen? What would you kind of recommend to them to turn the corner kind of thing?

Chloe Kennedy:

I truly believe it's good to still try and do some of the things you're doing before, I went straight back into doing some work, which helped me get away from my injury, my disability, because that's all that's going through your head when you're in hospital.

And I had a good group of girlfriends that would come and they would take me out. So if we had a dinner, they would call ahead and make sure it was accessible. And then just making me feel like it was just like before. And they helped with any little things, like at the time I wasn't as strong, so they would help cut things up for me or if I needed them to feed something to me or pass something to me or can I have a straw or whatever it was, nothing was weird. And then I guess it was really supportive having my partner around and he did the same. He tried to get me to come out and go for a coffee or go and go back to his place and just sort of try and be normal, have a normal dinner, and then also having my family come in all the time and visit.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, awesome.

Chloe Kennedy:

I probably couldn't have gone through all of that without having my mum there and my partner there. But I think just getting out and doing the normal things, you don't have to go straight back into living life the way you did before. I mean, it's been six years since my accident and I've only just gone back to work full time, although I did have a baby in between.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yes, exactly.

Chloe Kennedy:

But it's taken me a long time to want that working full time, even if it's just getting out and having a coffee with your best friend. It's little things that I think help you start realizing that your life's not over. It's just different. And just surrounding yourself with supportive people. I like having a good combination of people that get my injury. So I was saying those communities where other people do have disabilities, but then also being able to go and work for a company where I'm the only person that has a disability. So it's nice having a bit of a combination.

Steve Brown:

A bit of a balance where it's not all stuff about either, where you've got a bit of a balance of people that have that mutual understanding of everything that's going on. And then also just mainstream normal society, mainstream society I should say. With the whole thing, it's just getting your mind out of that space sometimes as well is good.

Chloe Kennedy:

Exactly.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, I feel you. That's why with my work as well, I really enjoy because it's just in such a different realm of things, otherwise it's just all disability, all spinal. You kind of need something, I feel like you're saying, something super different to that to break things up and just have a balancing in the life again as well.

I asked Chloe what was the biggest recovery goal she had in mind while coming to terms with her injury, to which she quickly answers...

Chloe Kennedy:

Having a baby.

Steve Brown:

Yeah. Wow. Awesome.

Chloe Kennedy:

It was one of the first things I asked after I knew that I had a big accident, but still didn't know really what was going on. The first thing I said was, can I still have kids? I didn't really know what I had damaged. I was all damaged. So what has that done to my fertility? What does that look like in terms of me having children? So I was always told that I wouldn't have a problem in terms of my spinal cord injury I shouldn't have a problem. And then my partner and I conceived with Aurora naturally. It was a surprise, and she's my biggest achievement because I've learned so much just from having her and the limitations I've been able to overcome, and I'm completely independent with her now, and I don't need people to help me help her, and she knows how to help me help her.

Steve Brown:

Amazing.

While the specialist obstetrician who took care of Chloe during her pregnancy, said there was a greater risk of her going into premature labor. She made it through the nine months and Aurora was delivered safely via C-section.

So did you guys always plan to have a kid as well? It was always something you wanted?

Chloe Kennedy:

Yeah, we were both, I mean, now I'm 34, my partner's 38, and we wanted to have babies and we were both working and I mean, I don't think anyone's ever truly ready if you need to say "Oh, I need to be financially ready," or "I need to be..." whatever the case. We thought, well, we're at a good age, so we just weren't doing anything to stop getting pregnant. So we just thought, if it happens, it happens. And it did.

Steve Brown:

As well as having a baby. In the years since her injury, Chloe has also started her business Beyond Adaptive.

Chloe Kennedy:

I was always trying to, if I couldn't do something, I thought, okay, what's out there to help me do that? And I just found that I was going on so many different websites and I'd be on eBay, I'd be on this adaptive product shop, I'd be on that shop, and I could never just get everything from the one place. So I just started thinking, well, I want to be that one stop shop, I guess. And I mean, I'm still trying to get that. I still wouldn't say I'm that one stop because I don't have, there's some exercise equipment that I'd like to try and stock to help people that are leaving rehab just set themselves up with a little home thing. So there's still little avenues I want to take, but just to sort of help OTs and to help people just coming out of hospital, there are these things available to help you do things. And it's not just people with spinal cord injury, it's from having arthritis to any kind of disability, and I wanted to focus on limited hand function and weak group. So I do sell some specific wheelchair things and door openers and stuff like that, but to focus on the hands was my goal.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, because that's, I feel like the biggest pain point, both having C level injury, it's just the most frustrating thing is when something's almost doable but not, or it is, but it's super, super thinly and it's finding a way to get that a little bit easier is just the best feeling when you're just like, "Hey, this can just take the same amount of time as anyone just with a simple change." It's like so good.

Chloe Kennedy:

Yeah. And just opening a drink bottle. I really don't want to use my teeth. I'm sorry but is way more expensive than just a little bottle opener.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, totally.

Chloe Kennedy:

And I've got no shame in having to use certain products. I would rather use those and live my life independently.

Steve Brown:

For sure. And it just means you can do everything that you want to do, but it's like, okay, you're just doing it a tiny bit different or a different way, but whatever. You're still doing it, who cares? It doesn't matter. If you've got a product that can let you do it, that's the best thing ever. I actually use a lot of Beyond Adaptive stuff here, which is pretty cool. I've got all the handles and stuff, so sick, actually saves my life so much. On the dishwasher, the dish drawers, just can't get anything into it, so just riff them out. Perfect. So good. Yeah, I think you're right. There's so many different, it's just so fragmented in terms of what's out there. It's hard to find the right things, and even if something's not even specifically disability related, it might be a really good product that would just be really useful for people to have to see.

Chloe Kennedy:

There's the best product too, even just hooks, they sell, well, I now sell these stick on hooks where you can put them on mirrors and tiles and so on, and it just makes reaching certain things so much easier.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, that's a good shout.

Chloe Kennedy:

I put them everywhere.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, whole bathrooms just covered in hooks. And also saves so much room on the sink or on spaces where it's like, okay, if you knock it off, then okay, it's gone. Whereas you can just hang it and they've got good space for everything, so yeah, that's what you want.

Chloe Kennedy:

I've got so much storage space in my bathroom, but I can't reach anything.

Steve Brown:

Totally.

Chloe Kennedy:

And I just have one of those tiny sinks where you can fit your toothbrush and that's basically it, and a mirror, because my mirrors are up here, of course, above my head, so I have a little mirror next to my sink and then my toothbrush, and then, okay, well, where do I put all my, I'm a woman, so I need all my face products. So I put all those organizers next to me on the wall.

Steve Brown:

So good. So easy.

Chloe Kennedy:

And I could reach them.

Steve Brown:

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, some really good ideas, I reckon.

Chloe also has some good ideas around how to travel after you've had a spinal cord injury and has the air miles to show for it.

I know your partner is from Italy right, and so you guys have been there a bunch of times and I'm always daydreaming about going back over there. So tips for traveling overseas or I guess what it's like to do it for people. I've done one overseas trip, but it was just one plane flight, and it was really, it didn't feel that scary to do just one, but when it's like multiple, you go into a whole other side of the thing, they're speaking in a different language, it's all happening, the disability things are all different, you don't know what you're looking for, et cetera, et cetera. How was that like?

Chloe Kennedy:

I always call ahead or request, some airlines let you do it online. I request, what's it called? Assistance, the whole way through. So when we get to the, obviously you put your bags all in at the beginning, and then when we have the stopover, someone comes to collect me and basically pushes us all the way to the next terminal. So they either push me or they help with bags because we've been to Italy twice since my accident, but both times we've also had our daughter, so we're not just traveling with someone in a wheelchair, we're traveling with a six-month old the first time and a three-year old the second time. So we need someone to either take the bags or help with me.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, there's just not enough hands for everything.

Chloe Kennedy:

And then the same happens when we've arrived in Rome. Someone's there waiting, they come and they help us go all the way to collect our bags. And then from collecting our bags to wherever we need, the car hire place or whatever. I find it easier to get around, because we're going to my partner's town, it's not like you can just get some train that takes you straight there in a few hours, and then we'd want to be able to get around.

So we find, and again, having a baby, we find it easier to hire a car. I obviously can't drive it, but I'm sure in certain countries you'd be able to hire some accessible car. I don't know. So we use a car and then, it's also you don't have to worry about whether the train's accessible or the bus or whatever, not having to worry about that. I do take a few little things on planes. So I have this really low profile honeycomb cushion I tend to use on the seat of the plane. It just feels better. I've got pretty good sensation and it just stops my buck from getting too sore.

Steve Brown:

Is that a Beyond Adaptive bit of gear?

Chloe Kennedy:

Oh my gosh, I should start selling them. Good idea.

Steve Brown:

There we go. Yeah, let's do it.

Chloe Kennedy:

I like it. And then I pack a few little pillows to put in my lumber, behind my back. I put little things like that in just to get comfy, and I take neck pillows. Last year, my partner teased me so much for having a whole bag of pillows, but it's so good.

Steve Brown:

It's worth it. Yeah.

Chloe Kennedy:

And I also take aspirin before the flight and for a few days after, just to help with the swelling. Because most people that are immobile get quite swollen on long flights. So for us where we don't have good circulation and we're not moving, I tend to get very swollen. So it just helps with that. Oh, and compression socks.

Steve Brown:

Yeah. Okay. So they're a must. Yeah.

Chloe Kennedy:

Definitely compression socks, but that's probably all my little tricks.

Steve Brown:

Yeah. Awesome. And what about a shower chair slash commode? Do you take one or did you rent them when you went there? Because it's always something I toss up. I'm like, oh, you'll get a crap on there, and then you get pressure injury or you'll get something or it won't work properly.

Chloe Kennedy:

They tend to be pretty crappy when you hire them. I borrowed, so where my partner lives or where his hometown is in Italy, there happens to be another quadriplegic in the town, so I managed to borrow an old one that he doesn't use anymore. The only problem that was that it wasn't self-propelling, so I kept having to get my partner to come in and push me from the toilet to the shower and stuff.

Steve Brown:

The shower to whatever. Yeah

Chloe Kennedy:

I do like to use a commode if I'm staying somewhere more than kind of a weekend. I do like to use a commode because I find it just better on my body and a little bit easier to do everything. If I go away for a weekend, so I'm going to Melbourne in two weekends and I won't take anything and I won't hire anything, so I'll just go on the toilet, straight on the toilet, and then I just make sure they have a bench for the shower. Just those fold down. Shower chairs are fine, but I don't like using them for too long because I always put a towel on them as well because they're way too hard and it really hurts me. So I put a towel down and then, I don't know, this is why I like a commode. I just feel like I can wash everything so much better and so much more efficiently. Whereas on little shower benches, they're fine for one or two times and then that's it.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good point. Yeah, it's a bit of a trade-off, hey? Or a toss up if you take it or not, but yeah, I guess it depends on how long you're going for and stuff too. Because otherwise you're just dealing with all this luggage and all this extra stuff for one morning you're like, okay, what's the point?

Before I got Googling cheap flights to Italy, Chloe and I wrapped up our chat with me asking her "Is there anything she wished everyone knew about life with a spinal cord injury?"

Chloe Kennedy:

Maybe just the independence. I have a lot of people that want to help where I don't need help or they just assume that I can't do certain things. Probably especially around raising kids, even making kids, they're probably think that, oh, you're in a wheelchair, you can't have sex. And I've had a few other moms tell me similar things, like when we're going to the park and I just take my Batec and I probably do more things than most of Aurora's friends do, and they say, oh, I can't believe how much you do with her. And I don't even, sometimes I forget. I've got one of my mum friends, she's like, oh, I keep forgetting that you're even in a wheelchair, because we go to the pool every weekend together and I'll get in the pool with them and we go to the park and we do everything. I don't know, there's nothing that I don't do that they do.

Steve Brown:

Yeah, totally.

Chloe Kennedy:

There's just certain, I don't know, certain houses that only have stairs that I can't go to or certain things like that, but apart from those really obvious physical barriers, I can do most things.

Steve Brown:

Thanks, Chloe, for this awesome chat. I've put a link to Chloe's Shop Beyond Adaptive in the show notes. That concludes season one of Life Rolls On. I hope you've enjoyed these chats with people that are living well after a life-changing injury. It's been so great to connect with some amazing people and see how everyone has found their way to a really positive place.

If you're someone who's recently joined our community, I hope you've found some helpful advice and fresh perspectives on life after injury. You've got a lot to look forward to. Everything gets easier and life isn't over, even though it might feel tough right now. And to those listeners that love and support people in our community, I hope you've gained some insight into this experience. People who live with a spinal cord injury are just like anyone else. It's been awesome to hear that despite going through something so challenging, everyone's been able to move on and get up to some really cool stuff.

Life Rolls On is hosted by me, Steve Brown, and produced by Melanie Dimmitt. This podcast is powered by Hireup, a disability support platform connecting people like me with top-notch support workers. Thanks for listening, and thanks to Hireup for supporting me in making this podcast.